FNRttC 2017 (that's next year, folks) thinking ride thread

[mmmmartin]

Gent is lovely just to bimble around. ..... I'll definitely go back....

Noted.

Maastricht i liked

Noted.
My current thinking is to ride in October a vague possible perhaps route that might be the 2017 Tour, starting at Dunkirk and ending at the Hook.

Spoiler: Here's why

It's easy to get the riders and bikes on South-Eastern trains to Dover and across to Dunkirk. It's easy to get riders and bikes on the ferry at the Hook and on the train to London at Harwich International first thing on a Sunday morning. A route with 100k per day max going along the Belgian coast (which is a quite reasonably interesting route for one day) then through Ghent and Maastricht and turning back westwards north of the Scheldt - while avoiding ground we're already ridden, and going through nice villages, nature reserves, etc, ought to be possible.

BUT - Brittany remains a distinct possibility.

Spoiler: And yet....

The main problem here is getting to the start and avoiding the hills. These problems won't go away. But thoughts are being had.

 

[StuAff]

BTW, I put this year's leave form in yesterday, closing date was next Monday (3rd). Have requested the weeks previously posted as tour dates- w/c July 3, w/c September 11.

 

[mmmmartin]

Have requested the weeks previously posted as tour dates- w/c July 3, w/c September 11.

yes, good, w/c July 3 is The Tour, and w/c September 11 is the date for the possible "Le Sightseer"

 

[Flying Dodo]

Noted.

Noted.
My current thinking is to ride in October a vague possible perhaps route that might be the 2017 Tour, starting at Dunkirk and ending at the Hook.

Spoiler: Here's why

It's easy to get the riders and bikes on South-Eastern trains to Dover and across to Dunkirk. It's easy to get riders and bikes on the ferry at the Hook and on the train to London at Harwich International first thing on a Sunday morning. A route with 100k per day max going along the Belgian coast (which is a quite reasonably interesting route for one day) then through Ghent and Maastricht and turning back westwards north of the Scheldt - while avoiding ground we're already ridden, and going through nice villages, nature reserves, etc, ought to be possible.

BUT - Brittany remains a distinct possibility.

Spoiler: And yet....

The main problem here is getting to the start and avoiding the hills. These problems won't go away. But thoughts are being had.

My vague ponderings had been on the lines of:
On a certain Friday, congregate at Dover based on an 11am-ish ferry, meaning availability of off-peak trains to Dover, then cycle Calais to Le Touquet (70 km), leaving plenty of time to wander around Le Touquet after arrival.
Le Touquet to Arras (105 km)
Arras to Mons (105 km)
Mons to Liège (140 km)
Liège rest day, allowing excursions to Maastricht, Herve ("cracking cheese, Gromit!") etc
Liège to Mönchengladbach (110 km)
Mönchengladbach to Arnhem (120 km)
Arnhem to Gouda (more cheese) (105 km)
Gouda to Hook of Holland (55 km) to then get either the 13:45 afternoon ferry back to Harwich, or have a wander around Gouda in the morning, to then get the 22:00 overnight ferry, arriving in Harwich Sunday morning.

Happy to park that until 2018.


(spell check reckons the closest match for Mönchengladbach is Church of England).

 

[theclaud]

Noted.

Noted.
My current thinking is to ride in October a vague possible perhaps route that might be the 2017 Tour, starting at Dunkirk and ending at the Hook.

Spoiler: Here's why

It's easy to get the riders and bikes on South-Eastern trains to Dover and across to Dunkirk. It's easy to get riders and bikes on the ferry at the Hook and on the train to London at Harwich International first thing on a Sunday morning. A route with 100k per day max going along the Belgian coast (which is a quite reasonably interesting route for one day) then through Ghent and Maastricht and turning back westwards north of the Scheldt - while avoiding ground we're already ridden, and going through nice villages, nature reserves, etc, ought to be possible.

BUT - Brittany remains a distinct possibility.

Spoiler: And yet....

The main problem here is getting to the start and avoiding the hills. These problems won't go away. But thoughts are being had.

If you think of 'getting to the start' as less of a group logistics problem and more of a Prologue which sees the participants variously converge on Plymouth or Roscoff, it changes things slightly, and encourages those who are able to take more time off, freeing up space for those who can't on the crucial late afternoon trains out of Padders. If we were aiming for a ferry from Plymouth late on Friday night, I might well take advantage of the fact that a first-class upgrade from Swansea to Exeter can be had for as little as £1.50 on an early morning train, and ride across Dartmoor by way of a warm-up. Food and booze is good on Brittany Ferries, so your holiday starts sooner.

 

[mmmmartin]

but crossing on Friday night involves peeps getting to Plymouth by taking the Friday off work, which is possible for some but not all.

those who can take the time, eg retired, etc, might cross the day before. I had arranged to do this. But starting from a place that is tricky to get to makes life more difficult than it need be.

 

[StuAff]

As posted way back when upthread, post #12 in fact, Portsmouth-St Malo (8.15pm sailing, arrives 8.15 am) and then trains (via Rennes, Brest-bound TGV that takes bikes to Morlaix) is also an option. This wouldn't save me, for one, a day's leave, but an option to consider for those in the south-east. Also avoids the delights of GWR.

 

[theclaud]

but crossing on Friday night involves peeps getting to Plymouth by taking the Friday off work, which is possible for some but not all.

those who can take the time, eg retired, etc, might cross the day before. I had arranged to do this. But starting from a place that is tricky to get to makes life more difficult than it need be.

It's not that tricky to get to as long as everyone doesn't chance it on the last chance train. I'm not across the ferry schedule but IIRC we've done the ferry in two lots to Cherbourg, and Dieppe, and various people have joined or left rides under their own steam at places other than the start or finish without too many problems...

 

[wanda2010]

yes, good, w/c July 3 is The Tour, and w/c September 11 is the date for the possible "Le Sightseer"

Holiday booked.

 

[StuAff]

As posted way back when upthread, post #12 in fact, Portsmouth-St Malo (8.15pm sailing, arrives 8.15 am) and then trains (via Rennes, Brest-bound TGV that takes bikes to Morlaix) is also an option. This wouldn't save me, for one, a day's leave, but an option to consider for those in the south-east. Also avoids the delights of GWR.

And...duh...TGV goes to Brest anyway...hence options to go straight there, or meet en route...

 

[jiberjaber]

My vague ponderings had been on the lines of:
On a certain Friday, congregate at Dover based on an 11am-ish ferry, meaning availability of off-peak trains to Dover, then cycle Calais to Le Touquet (70 km), leaving plenty of time to wander around Le Touquet after arrival.
Le Touquet to Arras (105 km)
Arras to Mons (105 km)
Mons to Liège (140 km)
Liège rest day, allowing excursions to Maastricht, Herve ("cracking cheese, Gromit!") etc
Liège to Mönchengladbach (110 km)
Mönchengladbach to Arnhem (120 km)
Arnhem to Gouda (more cheese) (105 km)
Gouda to Hook of Holland (55 km) to then get either the 13:45 afternoon ferry back to Harwich, or have a wander around Gouda in the morning, to then get the 22:00 overnight ferry, arriving in Harwich Sunday morning.

Happy to park that until 2018.


(spell check reckons the closest match for Mönchengladbach is Church of England).

11AMish ferry (with a 1hr before check in?) might be challenging to them that can't get in to London to head out to Dover due to full size bike bans on the peak trains? (though there may be combo cycle towards destination and then train which might get round it?)

This year the low points for me were the combinations of lack of sleep, late eating and so long in the saddle with heat for the distance travelled. The heat was probably the root issue effecting our progress, which in turn effected our stopping and meant on the majority of days for me, 10 hours in the saddle of which 5 hours moving to get 100km done. None of us could have predicted the heat though! This was my main holiday this year and I was quite depressed to have to leave mid way with a sense of failure...

It's a real shame we didnt get chance to discover more of Koln than the walk from the hostel to the meal, the Dom and the old/new Market areas we skirted by as we walked to the meal and back are epic places to view, but I also understand the reasons why we did what we did, so this isn't a criticism of what we just achieved, more a support for a bit more sightseeing.

I am sympathetic to @StuartG POV but also the general desire to keep the group all inclusive, there needs to be a compromise somewhere on tour focus (i.e. just ticking off destinations vrs sightseeing), distance, speed and ability at both ends of the spectrum. An Alpine bashing fast tour it should never be, but there also has to perhaps be a consideration of a minimum threshold if there is an application of a maximum. No I don't have any strong views on this (i.e. where to set the 'minimum bar' so to speak, but it would seem fair to both sides of the discussion plus).

I am not sure why there has to be a binary tour option (other than lack of leaders of course)... If I could, I would have loved to do a sightseeing tour sort of like 'what we just did' plus the tour challenge like 'the highest cyclable road in Europe' too...

I don't envy the challenge of getting the balance between ability, distance, destination and focus - best of luck with it @mmmmartin , however I suspect next year will bring different challenges for me which might preclude me from joining with you all...

Where ever you all end up, I am sure you'll all enjoy yourselves and I look forward to following it if I can't partake.

 

[velovoice]

When did we do ten hours in the saddle in a day?

I took him to mean 10 hours from leaving one Fridays Central to arriving at the next? He says on those days it took 5 hours to cover 100km, which suggests there were many and/or lengthy stops?

 

[mmmmartin]

isn't a criticism of what we just achieved, more a support for a bit more sightseeing......I would have loved to do a sightseeing tour sort of like 'what we just did' .....I look forward to following it if I can't partake.

Sadly, the words "I have a cunning plan" are marching inexorably towards this conversation..... let's see how my small tiny miniature little recce in October works out.
And, @jiberjaber a glance at the date for next year's Tour would suggest it's not only after Ramadan but ideal for a wind-down before a long and arduous bike ride such as LEL, it's almost as though this had been thought through quite carefully....

Ah. I assumed 'in the saddle' meant riding the bike. I think 6 hours to cover 100km is touring pace, no?

Yes, I think so. We tended to move at 12kph overall average, so a 120k day was just about 10 hours from departure to arrival, including stops. This tended to be an approximate overall speed over the whole trip. So a 9am departure from Fridays Central meant arrival at a 120k destination about 20 or 30 minutes before 7pm.

Anyway, the dates are fixed, immutable, enduring, immovable, inflexible, sacrosanct, steadfast, unalterable and unmodifiable so those who need to book holiday can do so.

It looks as if no day will be no longer than 95k and although I can't work out a full day off, there should be a very short day to allow sightseeing in a nice town. So if you want a cycling holiday it'll suit you. Highest cycleable road in Europe or Mont Ventoux? Nope.

 

[Gordon P]

Maybe I don't have the imagination

Nor do London river crossing designers: think Dartford Crossing, no bikes on the Garden Bridge & Nothing included in plans for the next one. I'll take a tiny lift & ignore the escalator sign

 

[redfalo]

On the subject of rest days, I would vote for 8 days at 105k rather than 7 at 120 with a rest day.

well, the daily milage acually was this:
day 1: 111 km
day 2: 96km
day 3: 99km
day 4: 91km
day 5: rest day
day 6: 122km
day 7: 119km (including 10km detour due to blocked roads)
day 8: 110km (I think)

this means a daily average of 94 km - even lower than your preference. On day 6 and 7, I also thought that next time, I would not put in days longer than 100km (think we still go away with it), or at least not have the first proper stop after less than 30km. However, cities big enough to spend the night at with 30 people are not evenly spaced across Europe, unfortunately.

I was very sceptical about the rest day. However, I have to say that it was the day I really enjoyed the most by a mile.