Ban Surface dressing of roads, sign the Petition

[John the Monkey]

Yes, I've read that too. I think a major problem is improper application, and a failure to follow through with sweeping surplus grit, especially a problem on single track roads where the action of traffic will never work in compacting the surface, the result being drifts of chippings, in the centre and sides of the road. Recently a lot of this stuff has ended up deposited across roads on bends at the bottom of hilly stretches, washed down by the torrential rain showers we've had - extremely dangerous if you are on two wheels.

Definitely! But I can think of two recently done stretches locally that the treatment was ideal for too - allowing the road to be opened sooner, and surfaced at lower cost. The council even did their bit by sweeping after application. Drivers were nowhere near the 20mph limit though, so I have my doubts about its longevity.

The problem I have with the petition, and its call for a total ban is that it fundamentally misunderstands the process, and its effect on vehicles. (For the petitioner, vehicles don't get damaged if you don't ignore the temporary limits).

Surface dressing isn't suitable everywhere, and has to be done properly, but that applies to pretty much every other surfacing methodology too.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Agree it is not a perfectly worded petition, but I signed it out of frustration. I can't think of any top dressed road around my way which has become more pleasant to ride on after treatment. There are a number of long stretches which were a joy for 12 - 18 months after resurfacing, and then the dreaded yellow codes appeared sprayed on the road heralding imminent surface dressing, and unpleasant riding over the months and years to come. It may 'improve' roads for motor vehicles - surface texture, skid resistance etc etc, but NOT for cycling

 

[I like Skol]

I'd also mention that I ended up drifting my bike round a recently dressed corner at about 10mph, I put my front wheel on the very narrow line of cleared line but this just caused the rear wheel to roll through the uncleared stones Next thing I know is I've got opposite lock on and I'm using the front brake to keep me upright! The rider behind me didn't have good bike handling skills and went in faster so hit the deck quite hard.

Isn't there an element of responsibility on the road user to cycle/drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions? I'm not saying I like the surface dressing method but to be fair, it is more inconvenient rather than dangerous if you pay attention and watch where you are going. The situation above is more of an admission of poor observation and lack of anticipation rather than an inherent fault with the process. the recent application should have been clear to see and gives enough time to slow down to a suitable speed where the surface condition can be assessed and an appropriate line chosen?

 

[John the Monkey]

Isn't there an element of responsibility on the road user to cycle/drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions? I'm not saying I like the surface dressing method but to be fair, it is more inconvenient rather than dangerous if you pay attention and watch where you are going.

I can think of a couple of roads with severe camber in Cheshire where the drifted chippings aren't noticeable unless you *really* know the road well (they look like the normal surface until they "grab" your wheel. Ironically, they're part of NCN/RCN routes, so fairly likely to be chosen as "safe" routes by people who don't know the area.

@youngoldbloke - the Crewe Green end of Crewe Road was dressed fairly recently, and is actually pretty good now, despite the best efforts of local drivers. Similarly Wilmslow Road between Heald Green and Handforth (done 6 months + ago) isn't bad. I could do without the couple of weeks with drifts of chippings, and the damned things being thrown into you by drivers doing 40mph on the newly dressed bits, but the surfaces aren't bad now. (They're wide roads without severe camber, with heavy traffic).

 

[buggi]

Done. Saw a really bad car accident about a month ago on the roads near my work bcoz they did this at the top of a hill on a corner on a national speed limit road. The skid risk sign was right on top of it so no time for the driver to react. So its not just us it affects. And besides anything else, it discourages people getting on bikes when the government is supposed to be encouraging it!

 

[marknotgeorge]

Mostly because the action of traffic, properly managed, does the job of rolling.

A lot of the problems in the UK stem from improper application, failure of traffic to obey the posted limits, and lack of aftercare. Cheshire East, to their credit, at least swept the carriageway done recently near me.

Traffic routinely ignored the 20mph limit though, so this application will be knackered in no time at all (and the drivers will moan about how the council wasted money on it, and it chipped their cars, and blah blah).

This article was a bit of an eye opener for me; http://www.highwaysmaintenance.com/SDtext.htm

Is this surprising when (a) most of the road-using public don't know that they're supposed to be acting as unpaid road rollers, and (b) it seems the signs are quite often left up for far too long. So the temporary limit's going to be ignored as it's seen as elf and safety backside covering.

 

[John the Monkey]

Is this surprising when (a) most of the road-using public don't know that they're supposed to be acting as unpaid road rollers, and (b) it seems the signs are quite often left up for far too long. So the temporary limit's going to be ignored as it's seen as elf and safety backside covering.

In one way no - a significant minority of motorists here seem very adept at completely ignoring a posted limit and bleating later about any adverse consequences (for them).

On the other hand, sustaining that level of self deception would, you'd think, be tricky under the racket of the chippings pinging off their vehicles, and the cries of the pedestrians, cyclists that they're inconsiderately flinging the blasted things at.

Not knowing the reason for a limit isn't really justifiable either, in a world where pretty much all the information there's ever been is (literally) at everyone's fingertips. Further, if they don't know the reason, why is the default to ignore the limit? Why not proceed cautiously?

 

[screenman]

For some of us there is an upside to top dressing.

 

[raleighnut]

Some of em round here treat them like rally stages.

 

[PK99]

Just come back from France and Spain, why can't we have road surfaces like they do? Wonderful silky smooth Tarmac. I was in the mountains so it's not just weather. They also don't seem to be so patched up, if it needs repair they shut the road and do the lot.

France uses the same tar and top dressing syste we do.

 

[PK99]

Agree it is not a perfectly worded petition, but I signed it out of frustration. I can't think of any top dressed road around my way which has become more pleasant to ride on after treatment. There are a number of long stretches which were a joy for 12 - 18 months after resurfacing, and then the dreaded yellow codes appeared sprayed on the road heralding imminent surface dressing, and unpleasant riding over the months and years to come. It may 'improve' roads for motor vehicles - surface texture, skid resistance etc etc, but NOT for cycling

Like it or not the purpose of top dressing is to seal surface cracks to prevent water ingress followed by freeze thaw cycles initiating potholes.

 

[GrasB]

Isn't there an element of responsibility on the road user to cycle/drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions? I'm not saying I like the surface dressing method but to be fair, it is more inconvenient rather than dangerous if you pay attention and watch where you are going. The situation above is more of an admission of poor observation and lack of anticipation rather than an inherent fault with the process. the recent application should have been clear to see and gives enough time to slow down to a suitable speed where the surface condition can be assessed and an appropriate line chosen?

You don't consider that for a surface that will be in existence for several days if not weeks that having a safe speed of somewhat less than 10mph for a two wheeled vehicle is appropriate? Personally I was taken by surprise by how little grip there was, that sort of behaviour is the reserve of polished ice & slick mud. It's worth mentioning that this corner I'd normally take at 35-40mph without any problems.

 

[srw]

France uses the same tar and top dressing syste we do.

It also uses proper tarmac, but seems to be able to lay it very quickly and efficiently.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Like it or not the purpose of top dressing is to seal surface cracks to prevent water ingress followed by freeze thaw cycles initiating potholes.

Perhaps it's time to develop a better method, or to make sure that the process is used appropriately and performed correctly?

 

[John the Monkey]

France uses the same tar and top dressing syste we do.

Yep - I saw it in both the Pas De Calais, and Champagne-Ardennes. I didn't see much traffic on the roads in the former, but in the latter (on, I think, the D1, a fairly major link to other towns from where we were staying) drivers were obeying the temporary limit through the treated sections. I think we saw it on the D3 too (again, the section I'm remembering had good adherence to the temporary limit), but I might be confusing the two roads.

Application on those roads was ongoing as we were driving on them, and the traffic was being routed around a vehicle trailing the application vehicles. That might have helped move traffic across the newly laid surface, bedding it in more evenly? (In the applications I've seen in the UK, the whole road section is closed until application is completed).

I can only remember drifted chippings being an issue in one section (a corner of a small road in the Pas De Calais) but obviously, as a tourist, I had no idea how recently the road had been treated. Signage was generally pretty good, with ample warning of the change in surface, and speed limit, in both the Pas De Calais and Champagne-Ardennes.