Cycling in Copenhagen is...

[GrumpyGregry]

... not too shabby. There are too many bikes on too narrow cycle paths in places, and sometimes the path just stops and spits you onto the road, and don't get me started on turning left at which point I become a third-class person, but the mini traffic lights for cycles are cool, and the sensors that pick you up and change the big lights are excellent, and the drivers are on the look out for cyclists so as long as you behave predictably (hard for a UK cyclist to do in their eyes - it takes some learning to ride cph style) you get on fine.

But I can't see how the infrastructure could be built in London. Honestly I can't. All but a few roads are too narrow.

Just tax the bluddy cars off the roads and ban the tipper trucks that seem to kill so many cyclists and you'd be well on the way to Copenhagenising London.

Malmo is pretty cool to, bike wise. "No ridiculous car journeys" (of less than 5km.) But no one in UK would ever vote for a city council with that as a slogan whereas in Sweden...

Stockholm is just generally the coolest place on earth, and not just from a cycling perspective.

 

[mjr]

... not too shabby. There are too many bikes on too narrow cycle paths in places, and sometimes the path just stops and spits you onto the road, and don't get me started on turning left at which point I become a third-class person,

Unlike the fourth-class situation in the UK where we're behind pedestrians and continuing cyclists (as in CPH), as well as motorists.

but the mini traffic lights for cycles are cool,

Have you seen their version of the "green wave"? Little road studs that light up green in turn and then go out to indicate the target speed to reach the next traffic light during its green phase, so you can tell if you should speed up or coast.

But I can't see how the infrastructure could be built in London. Honestly I can't. All but a few roads are too narrow.

Take the odd car lane as apparently Camden are about to in Tavistock Place and there's plenty of room. Many London streets are much wider than most cities because new roads have punched through even ancient areas over the years. The challenge is how to adapt other, more medieval cities and towns.

Malmo is pretty cool to, bike wise. "No ridiculous car journeys" (of less than 5km.) But no one in UK would ever vote for a city council with that as a slogan whereas in Sweden...

Why not? Does anyone really like motoring in congested urban areas? I can sort of see the attraction to the wide open road, but short hops around a city? Bloody annoying when motoring seems like the best option (as it sometimes does either when you have move large or commercial loads, or when you're doing a journey where mass transport sucks and you don't have access to a cycle).

 

[Shadow]

Stockholm is just generally the coolest place on earth, and not just from a cycling perspective.

Ummm...have you bought a beer or bottle of wine yet?!!!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Ummm...have you bought a beer or bottle of wine yet?!!!

System Bolaget has its faults, closing early being the main one, but otherwise it really isn't that hard. Beer (and wine) freely available in cph of course, at £7 - £8 a "pint"

 

[srw]

... not too shabby. There are too many bikes on too narrow cycle paths in places, and sometimes the path just stops and spits you onto the road, and don't get me started on turning left at which point I become a third-class person, but the mini traffic lights for cycles are cool, and the sensors that pick you up and change the big lights are excellent, and the drivers are on the look out for cyclists so as long as you behave predictably (hard for a UK cyclist to do in their eyes - it takes some learning to ride cph style) you get on fine.

As a regular London rider......

That's a bit like London, then. Except that our "too narrow cycle paths" are roads shared with motorised traffic.

When I have a bit more time it might be interesting to do some data mining on this website: http://www.statbank.dk/statbank5a/s...LDK1&PXSId=113915&tablestyle=&ST=SD&buttons=0

On the face of it it's an impressive databank.

 

[Shadow]

System Bolaget has its faults,

Quite...

at £7 - £8 a "pint"

Expensive then, even when compared with UK pricing.
So, maybe a cool place to live if you don't enjoy an occasional drink!!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

As a regular London rider......

That's a bit like London, then. Except that our "too narrow cycle paths" are roads shared with motorised traffic.

When I have a bit more time it might be interesting to do some data mining on this website: http://www.statbank.dk/statbank5a/s...LDK1&PXSId=113915&tablestyle=&ST=SD&buttons=0

On the face of it it's an impressive databank.

To get real numbers for what any man in the Clapham bus would regard as being for "Copenhagen" you have to add together the data for several municiplities, Copenhagen, Frederiksberg (an enclave within Copenhagen and where I am working), Tårnby (where I am staying) and Dragor that make up the city, or even the 18 municipalities that make up Storkøbenhavn or Greater Copenhagen. Modal share drops dramatically outside Zones 1 - 3 and the northern part of Zone 4.

 

[Captain Slackbladder]

Fantastic City, especially in the Summer.

Heading there on Monday for a few days and been a regular visiter for several years. From a cycling perspective the only issue I've ever had is avoiding crashing whilst eyeing up the ladies in their Summer attire.

As for beer prices, cheap enough if you know where to look

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Quite...

Expensive then, even when compared with UK pricing.
So, maybe a cool place to live if you don't enjoy an occasional drink!!

Like London it depends on where you drink, out in the burbs beers is broadly £5 a 'pint'. And no one buys rounds. Ever. "Thou shalt not be in another person's debt, even for the duration of one beer" is ingrained into Swedish culture.

The disappointing thing is their near obsession with old world wine. Gap in the market for someone to sell stuff that tastes of fruit not pencil sharpenings. Sadly the blazer boys and flash Haralds of Stureplan and Ostermalm all buy on price not taste any way. I stopped turning the wine list pages when it hit £4500 a bottle.

sthlm is a seriously cool city. Just don't believe everything Jens Lapidus writes....

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Fantastic City, especially in the Summer.

Heading there on Monday for a few days and been a regular visiter for several years. From a cycling perspective the only issue I've ever had is avoiding crashing whilst eyeing up the ladies in their Summer attire.

As for beer prices, cheap enough if you know where to look

Except come summer cph is rammed with tourists, and just because the natives take four or five weeks off work some of us still need to get to and from work

I estimate cycling levels about half what they were when I came out in April May from early July onwards... they are all on holiday!

If you can find me a decent pint in in decent bar in Frederiksberg for well under a fiver I'll buy it for you! (Yellow beer need not apply)

The London Pub does it best for me thus far but t quite a hike from the office. Tuborg is £2 a bottle at the local hot dog stand.

 

[Captain Slackbladder]

Except come summer cph is rammed with tourists, and just because the natives take four or five weeks off work some of us still need to get to and from work

I estimate cycling levels about half what they were when I came out in April May from early July onwards... they are all on holiday!

If you can find me a decent pint in in decent bar in Frederiksberg for well under a fiver I'll buy it for you! (Yellow beer need not apply)

The London Pub does it best for me thus far but t quite a hike from the office. Tuborg is £2 a bottle at the local hot dog stand.

I'm based in Christianshavn when I'm over - Couple of bars in that area are pretty cheap...Yeah, the out of office gets quite a few pings back this time of year, the majority will take around 3 weeks off.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I'm based in Christianshavn when I'm over - Couple of bars in that area are pretty cheap...Yeah, the out of office gets quite a few pings back this time of year, the majority will take around 3 weeks off.

Three... your lot are getting short changed mate, four or five weeks is the norm over here I'm here until end of the month, with a possibility, fingers crossed of a good pull beyond that.

Name names of bars and I'll buy you a drink, always nice to meet a fellow forum-er.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

So.

You ride up to a set of traffic lights and you want to turn left.

If the lights are green you proceed straight across and then raise your left hand as if to ask a question. This means I am stopping. You stop. Before you have crossed the junction If there is room you may turn your bike 90 degrees so it is pointing to the left of your former direction of travel. You then wait until the lights change to allow the traffic on the road to the left to proceed. You ride off wondering if the world would end if you mixed it with the cars, like you have to in parts of the city where there are no cycle lanes SHOCK! HORROR! and turned left like a grown up.

If the lights are red you endure the whole sorry performance with the added bonus of sitting at a red light for a good while before starting to cross the junction, putting your hand up, stopping, &c..

And while I am moaning...

The locals stop with their pedals at 12:00 and 06:00. Their 12:00 foot goes on the floor and the other foot remains on the (useless) lower pedal. When the lights change they either do this bizarre scoot scoot and wobble whilst starting to pedal thing, or the younger sort adopt the equally bizarre stand on the 12:00 pedal and heave down on the bars and wobble off thing. Preferably in third gear. Someone needs to ingrain the idea of the chocolate foot into these people. Chocolate foot pedal at 2:00 other foot on floor, lights change, press down chocolate foot off you go no wobble other foot meets other pedal coming up game on. It makes the forenz at traffic lights stand out a mile.

 

[srw]

To get real numbers for what any man in the Clapham bus would regard as being for "Copenhagen" you have to add together the data for several municiplities, Copenhagen, Frederiksberg (an enclave within Copenhagen and where I am working), Tårnby (where I am staying) and Dragor that make up the city, or even the 18 municipalities that make up Storkøbenhavn or Greater Copenhagen. Modal share drops dramatically outside Zones 1 - 3 and the northern part of Zone 4.

Doing some research (for a change), the total population of Denmark is 5.6 million. That's rather less than the population of London alone.

 

[mjr]

If the lights are green you proceed straight across and then raise your left hand as if to ask a question. This means I am stopping.

Ah, I wondered where Norfolk got that from! Do you know if it dates back to horse-driving days? The Norfolk ports haven't had many recent links with Copenhagen as far as I know.

You stop. Before you have crossed the junction If there is room you may turn your bike 90 degrees so it is pointing to the left of your former direction of travel. You then wait until the lights change to allow the traffic on the road to the left to proceed.

Don't you also pull over to the right of others who are continuing straight on?

For 20 years or more now, Norwich has had what was briefly called a Copenhagen turn around 2012, from Newmarket Road into Grove Road - https://goo.gl/maps/op6r5 shows the area where we used to wait on the left. It's not great but it's a movement that motorists aren't even allowed to make.

You ride off wondering if the world would end if you mixed it with the cars, like you have to in parts of the city where there are no cycle lanes SHOCK! HORROR! and turned left like a grown up.

Meh, grown ups get their own lanes. Scum get to mix it with stuff that kills them ;-)

While I'm fisking...

The locals stop with their pedals at 12:00 and 06:00.

Is it because they're used to coaster brakes? If you brake with your feet at 12 and 6, you can use both feet to brake instead of only the back one, then there's a brief section until the top foot crosses 1 o'clock where it's in neutral before the drive engages again.