Exchanging Places

[Origamist]

Imagine you were shown around a dodgy fairground ride called: "Ultimate Velocity IV" by a HSE inspector and he listed all of the safety issues due to poor design which could result in the loss of life, but, instead of closing the ride down, he said "now you know how dangerous these things are" and walked away...

 

[glenn forger]

Sometimes it's truly beyond satire, a cyclist killed after being run over by a twenty ton lorry is referred to as "not wearing a helmet" whereas the press don't even bother to mention if the lorry driver hasn't bothered to fit blind-spot mirrors that cost thirty poxy quid.

 

[subaqua]

Imagine you were shown around a dodgy fairground ride called: "Ultimate Velocity IV" by a HSE inspector and he listed all of the safety issues due to poor design which could result in the loss of life, but, instead of closing the ride down, he said "now you know how dangerous these things are" and walked away...

not WILL but COULD. thats the difference. it isn't the machine in the case of lorries its a SMALL number of drivers.

life is fullof risks. getting up, staying in bed .

stairs kill more people a year than lorry drivers. shall we knee jerk and put a lift in everywhere ? 52 people on average die each year in construction. do we stop building , no we EDUCATE AND TRAIN , and then PROSECUTE AND PUNISH CONSISTENT FAILURES. we couild throw money at problems but the cost/benefit figures don't stack up as much as we hate the deaths of people.

people bleat about disproportionate levels. what about a disproportionate response. out of interest when lorries were more actually more dangerous back in the 50s what was the cyclist death rate from them ? I can't find figures but am sure one of the always in the right here will have them.

 

[classic33]

How about I start a thread about how many people are killed doing what?
Start with taking a Bath. On average 13 people a year die whilst in the bath. A further 24, again average, receive hospital treatment for scalds suffered due to the water being too hot!
Lets not get started on the shower.

 

[Origamist]

not WILL but COULD. thats the difference. it isn't the machine in the case of lorries its a SMALL number of drivers.

life is fullof risks. getting up, staying in bed .

stairs kill more people a year than lorry drivers. shall we knee jerk and put a lift in everywhere ? 52 people on average die each year in construction. do we stop building , no we EDUCATE AND TRAIN , and then PROSECUTE AND PUNISH CONSISTENT FAILURES. we couild throw money at problems but the cost/benefit figures don't stack up as much as we hate the deaths of people.

people bleat about disproportionate levels. what about a disproportionate response. out of interest when lorries were more actually more dangerous back in the 50s what was the cyclist death rate from them ? I can't find figures but am sure one of the always in the right here will have them.

It’s certainly true that you can’t totally remove the human error element of road traffic collisions (until the time when driverless vehicles become the norm), but what you can do is re-design the cab to give a much better field of view. This would undoubtedly make the human error component less of a factor in HGV collisions, and not only with cyclists.

You’re also right that decisions on reducing road danger are predicated on cost/benefit analyses. However, things are slowly changing - Loughborough University is currently working on a major project in this area: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/news/2014/september/166hgv.html I am not expecting cab design changes to happen overnight, but clearly there is an appetite to move forward as the research is being sponsored by TFL.

 

[subaqua]

No they don't. More people may die in accidents on stairs, but stairs are inanimate objects - there is no action on the part of the stairs. Stair don't kill anyone.

Lorry drivers aren't inanimate objects. They're supposedly conscious animate objects in charge of another, potentially lethal object. There are actions on the part of lorry drivers and those actions do kill people.

can we stop saying lorries kill people then.

 

[Markymark]

I do sometimes think it is too hard for drivers of lorries to see all around them.

The answer therefore is to redesign them. Then if it's still too much for one person to do, then they need 2.

 

[subaqua]

I don't think anyone has actually said that. It's fairly obvious they are suggesting that the drivers are to blame. What is being pointed out is that there are inherently dangerous designs of vehicle that we allow on the roads. That's a statement of fact.

but it isn't the only factor in the incidents is it . choices were made and sadly some paid a high price. if the drivers are at fault a robust prosecution and sentence is required. but as you are well aware its " beyond reasonable doubt" for a conviction .

 

[subaqua]

I do sometimes think it is too hard for drivers of lorries to see all around them.

The answer therefore is to redesign them. Then if it's still too much for one person to do, then they need 2.

want to pay double for your goods ?

 

[Markymark]

want to pay double for your goods ?

Erm, how on earth would that work out? A lorry carries thousands, if not tens of thousands of £ worth of goods. A driver on say £100 a day would add a fraction to the cost.

But tough, if that's what is eeded to be safe, then that's way it goes.

 

[Profpointy]

can we stop saying lorries kill people then.

As the line goes, "guns don't kill people, rappers do!

 

[subaqua]

Except the cost of transport is a minor part of the cost of goods. Now who's employing hyperbole?

and you think that the transport companies are not going to put costs up by huge amounts to cover buying all these new lorries, employing extra staff .

a self employed driver having to employ a second man is going to double his labour costs overnight.

next !

 

[Markymark]

Yep, it may well push up costs. By a small amount. Tough.

Planes kill fewer people than lorries, guess how many pilots they have? Pilots are on a higher wage than lorry drivers.

 

[glenn forger]

if the drivers are at fault a robust prosecution and sentence is required.

You need proper investigations by the police for that. We don't get them. The driver who killed Eilidh Cairns was free to kill again because the police made a complete dog's breakfast of the investigation.