Funeral procession for cyclists killed on London’s roads

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srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Any ideas on how to achieve this?
(a) Wait. Reducing prosperity and increasing fuel prices will do it anyway.
(b) Congestion charges and road-pricing.
(c) Make cycling on roads perceived as normal and safe, which is happening anyway.
(d) More active policing of parking and road offences.
(e) More 20mph and safe zones.
 

jack smith

Veteran
Location
Durham
20mph on all urban roads, sorry but i do more than that on the bike nevermind a car!
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
Jack..20 mph, what are you talking about. I cant see anything referring to 20 mph.

Stowie....do some research as to how Holland did it. You can find it on Youtube. It didnt just appear, it had to be worked for. But cyclist have to want it to begin with and it seems a lot of cyclists in the UK wouldnt want it if they could.

Personally I like the cycle paths I ride on.

20141006_151423_zpsc3lrclss.jpg
 

Tin Pot

Guru
image.jpg


This would've been cool:
 

stowie

Legendary Member
Jack..20 mph, what are you talking about. I cant see anything referring to 20 mph.

Stowie....do some research as to how Holland did it. You can find it on Youtube. It didnt just appear, it had to be worked for. But cyclist have to want it to begin with and it seems a lot of cyclists in the UK wouldnt want it if they could.

Personally I like the cycle paths I ride on.

20141006_151423_zpsc3lrclss.jpg

I have done quite a lot of reading on how Holland and Denmark have done it. I am interested in the views of people who view that any segregation is a bad idea.

I have come to the pragmatic conclusion that we don't need special infrastructure everywhere, but on certain road conditions it is necessary to provide fast and convenient links between roads and areas where the roads and streets can be managed to become cycle friendly without the need. The key is that cycle infrastructure needs to work for cyclists, not be something to be added where it doesn't impact motorists and disappear where it does. It also needs to be part of a wider strategy on walking and public transport - ie. you could have the best infrastructure in the world, but if there is nowhere to park the bike for people using the train it really becomes a bit useless. Also, painting cycle lanes on narrow pavements which conflict with pedestrian movement is simply unacceptable.

One of the key features I see in other countries is that they differentiate between streets and roads. In the UK we have had a transport policy for years that hasn't - so we have seen small streets being actively designed to take traffic overflow from roads. For example, I live near major junctions where right turns for traffic have been banned to increase traffic flow through them, and minor residential roads been used to allow traffic wanting to turn right to cut through. I just don't see this in Holland and Denmark, where they actively stop through traffic in residential areas.
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
I have done quite a lot of reading on how Holland and Denmark have done it. I am interested in the views of people who view that any segregation is a bad idea.

I have come to the pragmatic conclusion that we don't need special infrastructure everywhere, but on certain road conditions it is necessary to provide fast and convenient links between roads and areas where the roads and streets can be managed to become cycle friendly without the need. The key is that cycle infrastructure needs to work for cyclists, not be something to be added where it doesn't impact motorists and disappear where it does. It also needs to be part of a wider strategy on walking and public transport - ie. you could have the best infrastructure in the world, but if there is nowhere to park the bike for people using the train it really becomes a bit useless. Also, painting cycle lanes on narrow pavements which conflict with pedestrian movement is simply unacceptable.

One of the key features I see in other countries is that they differentiate between streets and roads. In the UK we have had a transport policy for years that hasn't - so we have seen small streets being actively designed to take traffic overflow from roads. For example, I live near major junctions where right turns for traffic have been banned to increase traffic flow through them, and minor residential roads been used to allow traffic wanting to turn right to cut through. I just don't see this in Holland and Denmark, where they actively stop through traffic in residential areas.

I'm mostly anti segregation. That's not to say that I don't believe that there are some forms of segregation that aren't valuable, far from it. But I am anti-segregationist on the car/daily wail/populist idea that suggests that Cyclists have little place on the roads and should be completely removed from traffic because cars are more important.. Unfortunately when segregation is mentioned in the meedja or bile-induced anti-cycling rants of the Clarkson kind that's what is meant. BUT, I think any form of segregation should be either as a last resort OR, to provide a means of travel as you say to link places effectively where riding on the roads would be a non-starter.
Segregation has subtle forms. I'm quite a fan of the wide shared-use paths around Abingdon that are great for genteel cycling, jogging, walking the dog, pushing a pram etc. They are heavily used by the community of which many use them to cycle from A2B, Schools etc. Those that want to ride fast can use the road.
I'm a fan of the path that runs alongside the A23 from Brighton to Crawley. I'm a BIG fan of Bus Lanes. I like the curtailing of Rat-Runs except peds and cyclist etc. all of which have some means of segregation from cars, but does not remove the choice of being part of the regular traffic either.
Some segregation like that shown by SteveinDenmark along major roads would be great, but it would take a bazillions years for anything significant to happen here and anything like a useful scale.
Other ideas as srw mooted are much simpler, cheaper and quicker to put into practice and would have a far bigger impact.
 

Tin Pot

Guru
Disliking segregation on the grounds that drivers like it is a bit much IMO.

If you want there to be less cars for some other reason, I don't thinking cycling is the tool to get you there.

I don't see why a city like London can't invest the tax money it creates in grand programmes of cycling infrastructure that people actually want rather than the make work of HS2x.
 

Shut Up Legs

Down Under Member
Funeral is the say day as the "Die In" in London.
:laugh: Perhaps they could 'symbolically' load a few 'dead' cyclists into the hearse?
 

400bhp

Guru
A big funeral procession for about 10 people a year is a bit much - especially as the number has stayed static despite the explosion in London cycling.

If you really want to make a difference, sort out the lorries.

Agree with this.

It just seems an odd thing to do and makes us look like an out group.
 

jack smith

Veteran
Location
Durham
Jack..20 mph, what are you talking about. I cant see anything referring to 20 mph.

Stowie....do some research as to how Holland did it. You can find it on Youtube. It didnt just appear, it had to be worked for. But cyclist have to want it to begin with and it seems a lot of cyclists in the UK wouldnt want it if they could.

Personally I like the cycle paths I ride on.

20141006_151423_zpsc3lrclss.jpg
In the rticle it states thats what th are protesting for. 20mph limit
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
You have chosen to post on a cycling forum using the badge of a high performance car manufacturer as your avatar. Now I may be guilty of reading more into this little thing than is there but, are there any good reasons not to dismiss your point of view as being part of the get them out of my way agenda?
I think you're reading to much into it.
 
It’s an injustice that riding a bike marks you out as a member of an underclass that can be abused at will by others.

This behaviour is backed up – even encouraged – by the government in the way they’ve designed our roads and streets, and in the way the justice system favours drivers and frequently seeks to blame the victim.

They’ve created an environment (both physical and legal) where driving a polluting vehicle around residential streets at high speeds is seen as normal and acceptable, but riding a bike carefully around those same streets is seen as abnormal, deviant and questionable.

Should we be surprised at the attitudes which have been bred from this environment?

http://departmentfortransport.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/hand-me-my-gun-im-cycling-to-the-shops/

Found the link at the bottom of the stopkilling page.
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Disliking segregation on the grounds that drivers like it is a bit much IMO.

If you want there to be less cars for some other reason, I don't thinking cycling is the tool to get you there.

I don't see why a city like London can't invest the tax money it creates in grand programmes of cycling infrastructure that people actually want rather than the make work of HS2x.
As motorists are one of the loudest voices wanting cyclists to be removed from roads rather than address their own poor behaviors then it seems perfectly reasonable to me to resist being marginalised by those causing most of the issues.

There are many reasons for wanting to reduce car usage especially in cities, cycling is one that I'm particularly interested in and this is a cycling forum.

Mayors, Councils and Politicians still haven't quite grasped the benefits of cycling in a transport world where mostly the motorist (and it's backers) is king. The times they are a changing though ...
But the answer is a bit harder than that because what cyclists want what infrastructure exactly? Whose asking for what? That also begs the question whether infrastructure is the answer (shall I give you a clue here?).
 
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