Jonathon Tiernan Locke blood passport iffy? (ToB title for Haas?)

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rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
That excuse is an insult to all the fans.

Given that he was working with Sky throughout the year, why the heck did they hire him and once again it sadly points that the "in competition testing" - in this case at the TOB - is still useless, only catching people who are even more stupid that JTL.
This started before he was at Sky and only showed up as an anomaly when he joined the Sky team and joined the BP programme. If you had read the UKAD report it would show you that he was suspected as having been clean at the ToB.

The reasoning went onto say that, “There was no dispute that the abnormalities in the sample were consistent with the use of an erythropoietic stimulant which had been discontinued approximately 10 to 14 days before the sample was taken
...it was taken on September 22nd at the ToB, so the glow time was long over.

The blood passport programme is designed to test for anomalous readings over an extended period of testing and not for one-off doping.
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Is he allowed to race EPO-crits?
 

resal

Veteran
This started before he was at Sky and only showed up as an anomaly when he joined the Sky team and joined the BP programme. If you had read the UKAD report it would show you that he was suspected as having been clean at the ToB.

The reasoning went onto say that, “There was no dispute that the abnormalities in the sample were consistent with the use of an erythropoietic stimulant which had been discontinued approximately 10 to 14 days before the sample was taken
...it was taken on September 22nd at the ToB, so the glow time was long over.

The blood passport programme is designed to test for anomalous readings over an extended period of testing and not for one-off doping.

JTL was working with Sky for a significant proportion of the year before his signing. He attended training camps with them.

JTL was at the World Championships when the sample was taken on the 22nd, the men's road race was the 23rd.

My post presumes that most observers could work out, without the benefit of thousands of pounds of expensive lab equipment, that JTL was well-fueled at the TOB and that is why he was able to beat all the Sky riders - please see Brian Smith's crowings about this as evidence of the unique and unusual nature of JTL's performance.

Sky profess to be experts in rider analysis. They should ask the secret pro if they are in doubt; he knew.

We all know what the BP is supposed to do. Dr Ashenden, not me, doubts that as currently specified, it is effective - suggesting only a cretin will be caught by the current parameters - these are professional cyclists so those that dope will be professional about doping.

Er, surely what it shows is that the out-of-competition testing is *not* useless.
The IN competition testing at the TOB, where he would have been repeatedly testing showed that he was not positive. Which is why I stated that the IN competition testing was useless.

Dr Ashenden's opinion on the BP is out there for us all to read. I would suggest that it would be rash to consider that catching JTL at the time of the 2012 Wold Champs means the rest of the peloton who passed the BP there, are clean, but of course, maybe I am too cynical.
 

smutchin

Cat 6 Racer
Location
The Red Enclave
The IN competition testing at the TOB, where he would have been repeatedly testing showed that he was not positive. Which is why I stated that the IN competition testing was useless.

You're making assumptions about the state of his blood during the ToB. Understandable but... As you say, the pros are professional about doping, so as per rich p's earlier comment, surely they'd make sure there was nothing actually in their blood when they turned up at a major race?

I would suggest that it would be rash to consider that catching JTL at the time of the 2012 Wold Champs means the rest of the peloton who passed the BP there, are clean.

On this, I agree entirely.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
JTL was working with Sky for a significant proportion of the year before his signing. He attended training camps with them.

JTL was at the World Championships when the sample was taken on the 22nd, the men's road race was the 23rd.

My post presumes that most observers could work out, without the benefit of thousands of pounds of expensive lab equipment, that JTL was well-fueled at the TOB and that is why he was able to beat all the Sky riders - please see Brian Smith's crowings about this as evidence of the unique and unusual nature of JTL's performance.

Sky profess to be experts in rider analysis. They should ask the secret pro if they are in doubt; he knew.

We all know what the BP is supposed to do. Dr Ashenden, not me, doubts that as currently specified, it is effective - suggesting only a cretin will be caught by the current parameters - these are professional cyclists so those that dope will be professional about doping.


The IN competition testing at the TOB, where he would have been repeatedly testing showed that he was not positive. Which is why I stated that the IN competition testing was useless.

Dr Ashenden's opinion on the BP is out there for us all to read. I would suggest that it would be rash to consider that catching JTL at the time of the 2012 Wold Champs means the rest of the peloton who passed the BP there, are clean, but of course, maybe I am too cynical.
Basing your analysis of doping on 'he looked a bit dodgy cos he was riding well', and an anonymous blog written with the benefit of a year's hindsight is stretching a point even for one as cynical as you.
 

smutchin

Cat 6 Racer
Location
The Red Enclave
Dr Ashenden's opinion on the BP is out there for us all to read.

I need help. I've googled but can't find where Ashenden says what you're attributing to him. Do you have a link? Genuine question. I'm always interested in what Ashenden has to say on these matters. If he really does think the BP is useless, that's significant.
 
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Sky handled JTL completely differently to Henao. JTL was suspended immediately, whereas Henao was given full support for his anomalous readings. That says to me that they knew a lot more about JTL than they were letting on. Personally if I'd found out what his defence was going to be, I'd have flung him out there and then and said why.

Ashenden, if I recall, was not comfortable with a confidentiality clause and resigned from the Independent expert panel. He had some criticism for the passport around testing frequency. He subsequently resigned from the Change Cycling Now Group and was also seen criticising cycling Australia but it's a while since we've heard anything from him.

The Secret Pro is a good read but that's all.
 

smutchin

Cat 6 Racer
Location
The Red Enclave
Ashenden, if I recall, was not comfortable with a confidentiality clause and resigned from the Independent expert panel. He had some criticism for the passport around testing frequency. He subsequently resigned from the Change Cycling Now Group and was also seen criticising cycling Australia but it's a while since we've heard anything from him.

AIUI, he's no longer part of the UCI expert panel, because of the confidentiality clause thing, but he's still involved with bio passport testing via WADA, isn't he? And his disagreement with CCN was over them talking to Lance.
 
AIUI, he's no longer part of the UCI expert panel, because of the confidentiality clause thing, but he's still involved with bio passport testing via WADA, isn't he? And his disagreement with CCN was over them talking to Lance.
I'm not sure how it works. If the UCI passes it to WADA might he still review it? Honestly don't know.
 

resal

Veteran

Yes - you did your own research (sorry to take so long to get back to you). Passport introduced 2008. Lance waltzes through it . Ashenden leaves over confidentiality. Ashenden states that Lance's data showed that he had been doping whilst Lance is given a a green light. How many others have been given green lights when they showed similar abnormalities to Lance ? None of us have a clue.
Here are some other good articles, particularly the first one.
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden
http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/02/15/uci-ashenden-clash-over-lance-armstrong/
http://inrng.com/2012/04/whats-up-with-the-bio-passport/
 
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