Letter from the Met re: ASL's

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Davidsw8

Senior Member
Location
London
Received this from the Police yesterday, I guess I'm on their list of complaining cyclists :blush:.

Anyway, it requests that I post it on the appropriate fora, so here goes:

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ADVICE TO CYCLISTS
The Metropolitan Police Service is committed to reducing serious traffic collisions and the purpose of this letter is to increase driver and cyclist’s awareness and reduce road crime.

We have developed a web based information reporting system called ‘Roadsafe London’ to support us in this aim. Roadsafe London is accessible to the public via http://www.met.police.uk/roadsafelondon/

Roadsafe is receiving a high number of complaints regarding Advanced Stop Lines (ASL’s). Cyclist are complaining about vehicles encroaching into the reservoir when the signals are red this understandably makes them feel vulnerable.

If submitting footage regarding a complaint of this type please can I ask that the footage shows them driving over the ASL. Cycling up to a junction and seeing them in the box and filming them is of no use.

RULE 178 HIGHWAYCODE

ADVANCED STOP LINES.

Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorist, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked.

If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 &TSRGD regs 10,36(1) & 43(2).

The ASL should have a lead - in cycle lane so that cyclists can legally gain access to the reservoir ahead of the motorists’ stop line. Cyclists are not permitted to gain access through the solid white line, by entering the cycle box in this way they are also committing the offence of Contravening a Red Traffic Contrary to section 36(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, regulation 10 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

Please could I ask that you circulate this message on your forums.

Yours Sincerely

Karen Harrison 545TD
SCO15
Metropolitan Police Traffic
Roadsafe
Empress State Building.

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Andrew_Culture

Internet Marketing bod
Cyclists are not permitted to gain access through the solid white line, by entering the cycle box in this way they are also committing the offence of Contravening a Red Traffic Contrary to section 36(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, regulation 10 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.



I don't understand this bit, which angle are you not allowed to use to enter the ASL?
 
OP
OP
Davidsw8

Davidsw8

Senior Member
Location
London
Couple of points on this:

- Submitting footage: I'm often too busy concentrating on cycling and not getting knocked off to be thinking about what camera angle to use. I'm not Martin Scorcese FFS! :laugh:. Sometimes, I do try and point it in the direction of something of concern but I generally just remember an incident has happened and look at it on my Mac later...

- We can only enter the box through the lead-in lane, and we're committing an offence if we go through the solid white line? What if there isn't a lead-in lane and what if it's unsafe to do anything but cycle in to it over the solid white line? Seems too prescriptive to me.
 

I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
It must be the line behind as you're sat in the ASL.
IME many (but certainly not all) ASL's have a small width of broken white line in the left corner and this is the point at which you are supposed to enter. If there is no broken line then you should not enter while the light is on red which IMO make the ASL pointless in that situation, you would have to be moving pretty slowly to have entered the ASL on green and be able to make a decision to stop before leaving the ASL and rossing the jct.
 

400bhp

Guru
I don't understand this bit, which angle are you not allowed to use to enter the ASL?

I think some ASL's don't have a feeder cycle lane to them. Therefore you're not really supposed to enter them when the lights are on red.

Although to me, the only situation that occurs is when the ASL box hasn't been painted properly?
 

400bhp

Guru
IME many (but certainly not all) ASL's have a small width of broken white line in the left corner and this is the point at which you are supposed to enter. If there is no broken line then you should not enter while the light is on red which IMO make the ASL pointless in that situation, you would have to be moving pretty slowly to have entered the ASL on green and be able to make a decision to stop before leaving the ASL and rossing the jct.

Completely agree.
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
This has been done to death in RLJ threads, surprisingly enough. It is illegal to cross the first white line when the traffic light is on red (or when it is amber unless it is too late to stop) - the only legal way to get into the box in that case is using the lead in lane. If there is no feeder lane, the cycle reservoir is legally useless

This reads to me like the Met saying "go away and stop bothering us"
 

Amanda P

Legendary Member
Yes, some advance stop zones don't have any way to actually enter them legally when the lights are red, which effectively, if only technically, renders them utterly useless. Even when there is a dotted 'entrance', it's often in the gutter in the left hand corner, and practically (if not technically), you're usually better off avoiding that area.

Still, even if the cyclist carrying a camera has technically committed an offence by entering the ASZ other than over a dotted entrance, that doesn't absolve from blame a driver who enters the zone while the lights are red. The camera file would still show that the driver's offence had taken place.

I can't see the police then prosecuting the camera-cyclist for the purely technical offence of entering the ASZ other than through a badly-thought-out or non-existent entrance. (I hope I'm not going to wish I hadn't said that!)
 

Andrew_Culture

Internet Marketing bod
IME many (but certainly not all) ASL's have a small width of broken white line in the left corner and this is the point at which you are supposed to enter. If there is no broken line then you should not enter while the light is on red which IMO make the ASL pointless in that situation, you would have to be moving pretty slowly to have entered the ASL on green and be able to make a decision to stop before leaving the ASL and rossing the jct.

Got it. What a palava!
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
I can't see the police then prosecuting the camera-cyclist for the purely technical offence of entering the ASZ other than through a badly-thought-out or non-existent entrance. (I hope I'm not going to wish I hadn't said that!)
Unless you send them the part of the video that has you illegally crossing the line, they have no evidence that you've done so. You might have crossed the line when it was green, or you might have walked up to the junction then mounted your bike, or you might have flown there. If these scenarios sound unlikely, well, they're no more unlikely than the car driver having done exactly the same thing ...
 

BSRU

A Human Being
Location
Swindon
Pretty easy to understand,
no point submitting a video to Roadsafe unless you actually capture the vehicle entering the ASL when the light is red.
If the video cyclist sends in a video showing the cyclist failing to use the feeder lane then action maybe taken against the cyclist.
 
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