One bike to rule them all? The modern Rando thread

[All uphill]

I know where you're coming from and to a great extent, I'm coming from the same place - but I think there's some irony/contradiction in your stance that you're frustrated having choices dictated by fashion-driven constructs [of marketing dickheads] but you are putting your own aesthetic and technical restrictions into play in an exercise to find ultimate functionality.

Personally I like modern welded steel frames without lugs, I like sloping top tubes, I'm not appreciating any particular functional superiority of 650b wheels. I also like the look of a traditional frame and polished alloy - but I also like a modern sloping top-tube and black components.

Gear ratios that are useful, mudguards, racks, wide tyres, comfortable non-competitive frame geometry, components that aren't fussy with what they're grouped with - these are all things that I like.

For many years I was, forced by circumstances, a one-bike rider. I started out cycle-camping and day riding when I left school several decades ago but my cycling lapsed and most of the time, I was primarily a utility rider. A lot of those years, I rode second-hand or cheap but decent bikes (no BSO).

Over the last ten years or more, I have got back into cycling earnestly and bought myself a touring bike - this was the bike to do it all for me. Then I bought a folder, with the idea of taking it on public transport as part of my commute - but this didn't work out (primarily because the bike is still big folded up and not practical on crowded buses or trains) and the bike has been largely unused. Recently I got a new job and the best commute is a bike ride to the railway station followed by a train journey. I didn't want to leave my (relatively) expensive touring bike at the station so I bought a second hand 25 year old hybrid. This bike is now my utility bike. My touring bike is steel, 3x9 with friction bar-ends and cantilever brakes.

Then last year (last month actually), I bought another bike - my fourth - because I wanted something that would be more capable of off-road riding than my 32mm tyred touring bike. It's a non-drop bar bike with sloping top tube and black components. I was originally looking at the Spa Wayfarer with all polished alloy components but with the progress of components, I decided to go for something with more "cutting edge" technology.

This isn't a nod to the fashion-driven constructs of marketing dickheads but an honest and serious response to technological advancements, endeavouring to look beyond fashion and to long-term practicality (after all, an 8 or 9 speed drivetrain was once cutting edge and dismissed by some as marketing excesses).

So now I am a four-bike rider (but only three of them in proper use) even though I have been primarily a one-bike rider for many decades. I still consider myself to have the ethos of a "one-bike-to rule-them-all" rider, and I still have practicality in both purpose and mechanics foremost in my criteria.

But I no longer feel that, aesthetically or functionally, that restricts me to the likes of Rivendall and Velo Orange (even though I do find those sort of bikes to be "gorgeous"). However, it could be construed that my current idea of one bike to rule them all is a product of modern fashion over traditional non-commercial values.

And if you're wondering - this is my new "one bike" (even though I still want a cheap utility bike and there's better bikes for unladen road rides):

View attachment 719373

Lovely bike.

 

[Donger]

lol - what was your reasoning for that; just a backup, or a too-good-to-miss price?

Glad I'm not the only one who's apparently tacitly driven to buy more of the same once I've got something I like

Just didn't like being without a bike when it was in for a service or repair .... or sat at home waiting for parts. It is such a go-anywhere-do-anything kind of bike that it was an obvious choice to get another one. Whatever goes wrong nowadays, I know I have the right back-up bike on hand, either to ride or to raid for parts.

 

[All uphill]

My attention was caught by a gleaming black bike yesterday; hub gears, hydraulic brakes and big tyres. I immediately thought of this thread, and that this mystery bike offered a good modern do-it- all solution.

Turned out it was a lightly modified Carrera Subway 8!

 

[wafter]

Just didn't like being without a bike when it was in for a service or repair .... or sat at home waiting for parts. It is such a go-anywhere-do-anything kind of bike that it was an obvious choice to get another one. Whatever goes wrong nowadays, I know I have the right back-up bike on hand, either to ride or to raid for parts.

That's fair - I think one of the things that I love about bikes is that (unlike everything else in my life) they're manageable / something I can control and maintain purely on my own.. so I can appreciate that sense of empowerment of knowing that one's always ready to go.

 

[vickster]

Temple have some good looking steel bikes

 

[wafter]

Temple have some good looking steel bikes

They do - was tempted when they had their sale earlier in the year..

 

[chriswoody]

These days I suppose the closest bike to the ideal of being "the one bike" is the gravel bike. My Kona is an incredibly versatile machine that is used for all manner of riding though it really isn't the kind of bike Wafter was envisaging in his original post!

That said, I can really understand the rant against modern fashion driven trends, here's some that really annoy me, though I'm not sure many of my choices will be agreed with!

650b wheels

OK, gravel bikes need clearance for wider tires, 50mm tires should be standard. What really grinds my gears is the fact that many new gravel bikes will only offer large clearances if you purchase a set of 650b wheels. So after spending several thousand on a new bike, I now have to spend an additional few hundred on a set of smaller wheels so I can fit a set of tires that will allow me to use the bike for its intended purpose? thanks, but no thanks, just build the ruddy bike with proper clearances in the first place. Thankfully my Kona came with 50mm clearances on it's original 700c wheels.

Flat Mount Brakes

Thanks for nothing Shimano. So they developed the flat mount brake standard for Aero reasons and now every bloomin bike with curly bars comes with this ridiculous standard. What's my problem with flat mount? the fact that they restrict the maximum rotor size and make it tricky to upgrade to decent size rotors. Luckily my Kona has post mount so I'm currently running 180mm rotor on the front and 160mm on the back, which is great for actually stopping me when I'm hurtling down a long steep gravel descent fully loaded.

1x Groupsets

OK, let me clarify, I love 1x groupsets and that will not sit well with many folk, especially on this thread, however, let's look at how manufacturers are screwing up the implementation of this. Firstly a lot of gravel bikes that are specced with 1x drivetrains have ridiculous size chain rings, 38 or even 40 teeth in some instances. I mean really? do they think were all Chris hoy in disguise? This is patently ridiculous and no wonder folk hate them.

One of the first things I did was change my chainring to a much smaller one, but therein lies the next issue, that of overall range. So with a 3x9 set up I can have a lovely 18 inch granny gear at one end and a whopping great 100 inch gear for speed runs at the other. With my 11 speed 10-42 cassette, I need to choose which way to go. I actually run a 34 tooth chainring day to day, which means I have good top speed and a lousy granny gear. When I'm touring I swap to a 28 tooth chainring, to give me a decent granny gear, but a lousy top speed.

Do you can what really annoys me though? on Mountain bikes they use a 50 or 52 tooth maximum sprocket size to give them a really good granny gear, however, this isn't possible on a road bike derailleur and the maximum I can have is 42 teeth. So why not swap to a MTB derailleur like the old days of 3x9? well with modern 11 and 12 speed's the cable pull ratio is different so a MTB derailleur won't play with drop bar shifters. Except, that's not true, well with SRAM at least. Do you know how a SRAM derailleur knows how much movement to make per click of the shifter? On the derailleur there is a plastic fin that the cable goes around, the shape and radius of this dictates the cable pull ratio. This fin is actually detachable and you can swap the fin from a road derailleur onto a MTB derailleur and viola you have a MTB derailleur working with road shifters. The catch? SRAM won't sell the fin as a spare part, that's right, a small plastic part costing cents to make is all that stands between the people and being able to have a decent range of gears on their gravel bikes, yet SRAM won't let you? why SRAM why?

Steel Frames

OK, l love steel frames, my Kona has one, Steel is great. Why though do so many manufacturers insist on speccing wonderful gorgeous steel framed bikes with carbon forks? Why? If I wanted carbon I'd buy a carbon bike, but I don't, I want steel!

So for me, I guess I do find my Kona is the best of my bikes, the most versatile and the least single minded bike I own. It has a steel frame, clearance for large tires on 700c wheels and decent disc brakes. In respect of this thread though, it doesn't have a lugged steel frame, the forks are straight and more controversially it has a 1x drivetrain, because personally I hate 3x9 and bar end shifters. I had them on my last bike which I rode for nearly 30 years, but 1x and double tap shifters are superior in every way, sorry folks!

 

[wafter]

These days I suppose the closest bike to the ideal of being "the one bike" is the gravel bike. My Kona is an incredibly versatile machine that is used for all manner of riding though it really isn't the kind of bike Wafter was envisaging in his original post!

That said, I can really understand the rant against modern fashion driven trends, here's some that really annoy me, though I'm not sure many of my choices will be agreed with!

650b wheels

OK, gravel bikes need clearance for wider tires, 50mm tires should be standard. What really grinds my gears is the fact that many new gravel bikes will only offer large clearances if you purchase a set of 650b wheels. So after spending several thousand on a new bike, I now have to spend an additional few hundred on a set of smaller wheels so I can fit a set of tires that will allow me to use the bike for its intended purpose? thanks, but no thanks, just build the ruddy bike with proper clearances in the first place. Thankfully my Kona came with 50mm clearances on it's original 700c wheels.

Flat Mount Brakes

Thanks for nothing Shimano. So they developed the flat mount brake standard for Aero reasons and now every bloomin bike with curly bars comes with this ridiculous standard. What's my problem with flat mount? the fact that they restrict the maximum rotor size and make it tricky to upgrade to decent size rotors. Luckily my Kona has post mount so I'm currently running 180mm rotor on the front and 160mm on the back, which is great for actually stopping me when I'm hurtling down a long steep gravel descent fully loaded.

1x Groupsets

OK, let me clarify, I love 1x groupsets and that will not sit well with many folk, especially on this thread, however, let's look at how manufacturers are screwing up the implementation of this. Firstly a lot of gravel bikes that are specced with 1x drivetrains have ridiculous size chain rings, 38 or even 40 teeth in some instances. I mean really? do they think were all Chris hoy in disguise? This is patently ridiculous and no wonder folk hate them.

One of the first things I did was change my chainring to a much smaller one, but therein lies the next issue, that of overall range. So with a 3x9 set up I can have a lovely 18 inch granny gear at one end and a whopping great 100 inch gear for speed runs at the other. With my 11 speed 10-42 cassette, I need to choose which way to go. I actually run a 34 tooth chainring day to day, which means I have good top speed and a lousy granny gear. When I'm touring I swap to a 28 tooth chainring, to give me a decent granny gear, but a lousy top speed.

Do you can what really annoys me though? on Mountain bikes they use a 50 or 52 tooth maximum sprocket size to give them a really good granny gear, however, this isn't possible on a road bike derailleur and the maximum I can have is 42 teeth. So why not swap to a MTB derailleur like the old days of 3x9? well with modern 11 and 12 speed's the cable pull ratio is different so a MTB derailleur won't play with drop bar shifters. Except, that's not true, well with SRAM at least. Do you know how a SRAM derailleur knows how much movement to make per click of the shifter? On the derailleur there is a plastic fin that the cable goes around, the shape and radius of this dictates the cable pull ratio. This fin is actually detachable and you can swap the fin from a road derailleur onto a MTB derailleur and viola you have a MTB derailleur working with road shifters. The catch? SRAM won't sell the fin as a spare part, that's right, a small plastic part costing cents to make is all that stands between the people and being able to have a decent range of gears on their gravel bikes, yet SRAM won't let you? why SRAM why?

Steel Frames

OK, l love steel frames, my Kona has one, Steel is great. Why though do so many manufacturers insist on speccing wonderful gorgeous steel framed bikes with carbon forks? Why? If I wanted carbon I'd buy a carbon bike, but I don't, I want steel!

So for me, I guess I do find my Kona is the best of my bikes, the most versatile and the least single minded bike I own. It has a steel frame, clearance for large tires on 700c wheels and decent disc brakes. In respect of this thread though, it doesn't have a lugged steel frame, the forks are straight and more controversially it has a 1x drivetrain, because personally I hate 3x9 and bar end shifters. I had them on my last bike which I rode for nearly 30 years, but 1x and double tap shifters are superior in every way, sorry folks!

Can't disagree with much of that!

650b wheels
Yes; decent clearances for all!

Flat Mount Brakes
I personally like flat mount, but probably for no other reason that they look tidier. Hadn't considered your position and indeed my recent (contemporary) MTB purchase still has post-mount..

1x Groupsets
For all its sins I don't mind the 1x setup on the MTB, but then it's OK for the reasons you suggest. Having recently tried to find a wider-Q factor crankset for my 105-equipped gravel bike (and by extension looking at MTB bits) has really highlighted to me what, as you suggest, an absolute clusterf*ck Shimano have made of the whole road / MTB compatability thing.. the short story being that since approx. 9sp there's basically bugger all.

I appreciate that these decisions were probably legit for technical reasons when considered solely in the context of the application in question, and that if one stays within the stipulated component range all is well. Unfortunatley Shimano's questionable marketing choices give plenty of reasons to deviate from their chosen path..

Personally I think a triple is ideal on a gravel bike - since, to an extent it's expected to cover a wider terrain than any other type of bike. On top of that I love a triple - middle ring all the time unless you're on rough ground or going up / down a fat hill.

It really irritates me how the triple has basically been binned because it's "unfashionable" - probably only being designated as such because it requires more skill / attention to setup and costs more to produce.. despite its enormous versatility..


Steel Frames
Yes, bugger placcy forks on a steel frame; seems entirely counter to the whole ethos of the bike..

 

[Venod]

Why though do so many manufacturers insist on speccing wonderful gorgeous steel framed bikes with carbon forks? Why? I

I have a wonderful gorgeous Chessini steel frame it has (had) steel forks with very nice pantographing on the fork crown, I struggled with the decision to fit carbon forks but so glad I did, the steel steerer of the old forks was the heaviest part of the bike, the new forks are a lot lighter and the ride feels smoother.

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good mornimg,

The Brother Kepler looks like a decent, local contender; only let down by the straight, unlugged forks (and maybe unlugged frame of indeterminate parentage)..

Sadly I can't post a pic as their website is apparently a bit of a dick..

Do you mean this, I don't get why websites disable context menus, especially as <shift><windows>S works anyway.

Bye

Ian

 

[Sallar55]

I bought this as a frame to build up last year as they still had frames but no complete bikes ( no need to strip down and sell off the not so good parts) , 2.35 tyres ,hope and a German dynamo ,hubs nice rims,2by 10 gears old style xt brakes and the rest off my old touring bike. If they updated it with a carbon frame I would upgrade again. Carbon is much stronger than most people imagine.
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/trek-920-disc-review

 

[wafter]

Good mornimg,

Do you mean this, I don't get why websites disable context menus, especially as <shift><windows>S works anyway.
View attachment 719409
Bye

Ian

Yes (well, correct site; different bike) - evidently you're more adept at coaxing out the images than I am