I have a Carerra Crossfire 3 bought new last year.
Took it to (Mod Note: shop name deleted) in Canterbury, Kent, UK yesterday (Friday, 25th 2024).
I told (Mod Note: mechanic name deleted) what the issue was and had called in to ask if it was ok to bring it in on that day for indexing. Gears were sometimes not shifting and I would have to shift up or down a gear, then back to the gear I want before it changes to the one I want.
Sometimes gears weren't changing fast enough.
Both issues are sporadic.
He checked the gears after propping it up on a bike stand thing. Said the gears seem to be fine. I explained the above again to him.
He checked the hanger using a DAHG tool and showed me that the rear hanger was out. He used the tool differently to how this Parktool video shows to use it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXfvW0L3iLM
He used the black rubber things as markers and didn't fix the steel round tube thing in place.
He didn't use the same part of the wheel by rotating the wheel. In the video, the guy says to use the valve as a marker so you know which part of the wheel to use.
He did a measurement at 12'oclock and 6'oclock.
6'oclock one he said was out by quarter of an inch.
He said I need a new hanger.
I asked where I can get one from and if Halfords sell one. He said they do but they bend very easily.
He showed me ones he sells for £21.99 each. Pilo D16 it is called.
He said they are CNC cut so they are stronger.
He said with the Halfords cast ones, you take the bike out to Sainsburys and it gets bent very easily. It's not worth my time to fix that. They bend too easily.
He got his assistant to explain to me how exactly they are stronger when I asked. They guy started talking about molecules and alignment etc. I couldn't follow.
I gave him the go ahead for replacing the hanger with the one he sold and had. Pilo D16.
He fitted it.
He also took a cast hanger, put it in a vice and snapped it with pliers. He then put a Pilo one in, to which his assistant exclaimed 'You're gonna bend that?!', to which he said, 'I've had it in the drawer for ages'.
He then told me to take the pliers and try bending it. I asked if he's sure, he said yes.
I didn't want to damage such an expensive part, so I didn't apply too much force. It didn't bend.
BUT note that HE bent the cast one himself. It would have made more sense to let me do it so I could feel the difference between the cast and CNC.
He is also MUCH stronger than me.
He told me to look at the inside of the one he snapped and said 'look how brittle it is;.
I asked him to show me the new one is not out of alignment for comparison using the DAG tool. He had already screwed the derailer back on. He said of course he can show me. Then was upset/frustrated when he realised he had already fitted the derailer back on. He got his assistant to remove the deariller. Then he showed me using the tool.
He checked the gears again and said it's fine. I asked don't they need adjusting?
He said no. Told me to take it for a spin to check.
Before that we had a discussion about the hanger and what issues present themselves when its bent. He said ghosting. I asked what that is. He explained. I told him I am NOT experiencing that at all. I ONCE AGAIN, told him what issues I was having. He said he doesn't know what is causing those issues.
I took the bike for a spin. Gears still had the issues I described above.
He took it for a spin himself. I was in the workshop when he did. He called me over once he finished and said 'try that'.
I asked him if he changed anything. He said he tightened the gears.
I test rode it. Gears change louder now and overall seems to be worse, with most gears taking longer to change it seems.
It was closing time so I didn't say anything.
I paid the £21.99.
Came back home to learn what the tool is called that he used. Went down a rabbit hole of research. Found out that the tool is also used to fix the hanger by bending it into place.
He never told me the old one can be fixed, and told me a new one is needed.
He said he gets parts for trade prices, but this is being sold for the same price + P&P online. So does he sell for profit?
I learnt that the hanger is a part that is sacrificial. It is SUPPOSED to break so as not to damage the frame and derailler both of which are expensive to replace. Especially the frame.
As I was getting my gear back onto me, he got his assistant to take my bike out. I asked his assistant if I was getting in the way, and he said, nah I know what it is, it's cus it's close to closing time.
> Given I was not having ghosting, was I just sold a part I didn't need? The issues I faced have not been resolved.
> Given this Pilo hanger is so rigid and does not bend or break easily, is this not a bad thing given that the hanger is meant to break/bend to protect the frame etc?
> Should he not have just fixed the old one? Remember, he just told me I need a new one. I had no idea the old one could be fixed, until I came home and did research.
Also apparently the fact the hanger is CNC cut is NOT what makes it stronger, but in fact is the composition of the aluminum used. Both cast and CNC hangers are made from Aluminum.
The videos show that after replacing the hanger with a new one, you should always check that the new one is not out of alignment. He didn't till I asked him to, and only 12'oclock and 6'oclock. Apparently 3 points of contact should be checked.
I forgot my old hanger there. I hope he still has it.
MOD NOTE:
Name of shop and the name of the mechanic have been removed from this post.
Edit:
He has replied via email to me saying this:
Of course, I will put it to one side for you to collect.
Just a note about the Google review you left, I did explain that although other bicycle repair shops sell the cheap cast aluminium hangers, and some may try to straighten them, it is not something we sell or attempt to do. (I am pretty sure he didn't tell me this).
The issue with cheap cast aluminium hangers is that they are incredibly brittle and if you try to straighten them, they can sometimes break.
I demonstrated this to you when I put a cheap hanger in the vice and it broke easily. I then put in a brand new CNC hanger for you to try and bend, just so you can understand the difference between them both.
Please be assured if your bicycle had a CNC hanger to hanger to start with, we would have straightened it with the tool.
I hope answers your query as to why we didn't attempt to straighten it.
And then he replied to the reply I sent him saying this:
The issue with the cheap cast aluminium is they bend far too quickly and easily.
The primary object of the hanger is to protect the frame. A CNC hanger should break before frame damage occurs.
Cheap hangers that bend too easy will cause possible catastrophic damage to derailleur, chain, wheel and frame.
Please see below notes of why hangers such as Pilo, Wheels Manufacturing and Meta are better than the cheap Chinese hangers we are seeing on many bikes.
If you are still not satisfied, I am happy to order you a replacement cast hanger and replace the Pilo. I will then refund the difference in price.
Took it to (Mod Note: shop name deleted) in Canterbury, Kent, UK yesterday (Friday, 25th 2024).
I told (Mod Note: mechanic name deleted) what the issue was and had called in to ask if it was ok to bring it in on that day for indexing. Gears were sometimes not shifting and I would have to shift up or down a gear, then back to the gear I want before it changes to the one I want.
Sometimes gears weren't changing fast enough.
Both issues are sporadic.
He checked the gears after propping it up on a bike stand thing. Said the gears seem to be fine. I explained the above again to him.
He checked the hanger using a DAHG tool and showed me that the rear hanger was out. He used the tool differently to how this Parktool video shows to use it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXfvW0L3iLM
He used the black rubber things as markers and didn't fix the steel round tube thing in place.
He didn't use the same part of the wheel by rotating the wheel. In the video, the guy says to use the valve as a marker so you know which part of the wheel to use.
He did a measurement at 12'oclock and 6'oclock.
6'oclock one he said was out by quarter of an inch.
He said I need a new hanger.
I asked where I can get one from and if Halfords sell one. He said they do but they bend very easily.
He showed me ones he sells for £21.99 each. Pilo D16 it is called.
He said they are CNC cut so they are stronger.
He said with the Halfords cast ones, you take the bike out to Sainsburys and it gets bent very easily. It's not worth my time to fix that. They bend too easily.
He got his assistant to explain to me how exactly they are stronger when I asked. They guy started talking about molecules and alignment etc. I couldn't follow.
I gave him the go ahead for replacing the hanger with the one he sold and had. Pilo D16.
He fitted it.
He also took a cast hanger, put it in a vice and snapped it with pliers. He then put a Pilo one in, to which his assistant exclaimed 'You're gonna bend that?!', to which he said, 'I've had it in the drawer for ages'.
He then told me to take the pliers and try bending it. I asked if he's sure, he said yes.
I didn't want to damage such an expensive part, so I didn't apply too much force. It didn't bend.
BUT note that HE bent the cast one himself. It would have made more sense to let me do it so I could feel the difference between the cast and CNC.
He is also MUCH stronger than me.
He told me to look at the inside of the one he snapped and said 'look how brittle it is;.
I asked him to show me the new one is not out of alignment for comparison using the DAG tool. He had already screwed the derailer back on. He said of course he can show me. Then was upset/frustrated when he realised he had already fitted the derailer back on. He got his assistant to remove the deariller. Then he showed me using the tool.
He checked the gears again and said it's fine. I asked don't they need adjusting?
He said no. Told me to take it for a spin to check.
Before that we had a discussion about the hanger and what issues present themselves when its bent. He said ghosting. I asked what that is. He explained. I told him I am NOT experiencing that at all. I ONCE AGAIN, told him what issues I was having. He said he doesn't know what is causing those issues.
I took the bike for a spin. Gears still had the issues I described above.
He took it for a spin himself. I was in the workshop when he did. He called me over once he finished and said 'try that'.
I asked him if he changed anything. He said he tightened the gears.
I test rode it. Gears change louder now and overall seems to be worse, with most gears taking longer to change it seems.
It was closing time so I didn't say anything.
I paid the £21.99.
Came back home to learn what the tool is called that he used. Went down a rabbit hole of research. Found out that the tool is also used to fix the hanger by bending it into place.
He never told me the old one can be fixed, and told me a new one is needed.
He said he gets parts for trade prices, but this is being sold for the same price + P&P online. So does he sell for profit?
I learnt that the hanger is a part that is sacrificial. It is SUPPOSED to break so as not to damage the frame and derailler both of which are expensive to replace. Especially the frame.
As I was getting my gear back onto me, he got his assistant to take my bike out. I asked his assistant if I was getting in the way, and he said, nah I know what it is, it's cus it's close to closing time.
> Given I was not having ghosting, was I just sold a part I didn't need? The issues I faced have not been resolved.
> Given this Pilo hanger is so rigid and does not bend or break easily, is this not a bad thing given that the hanger is meant to break/bend to protect the frame etc?
> Should he not have just fixed the old one? Remember, he just told me I need a new one. I had no idea the old one could be fixed, until I came home and did research.
Also apparently the fact the hanger is CNC cut is NOT what makes it stronger, but in fact is the composition of the aluminum used. Both cast and CNC hangers are made from Aluminum.
The videos show that after replacing the hanger with a new one, you should always check that the new one is not out of alignment. He didn't till I asked him to, and only 12'oclock and 6'oclock. Apparently 3 points of contact should be checked.
I forgot my old hanger there. I hope he still has it.
MOD NOTE:
Name of shop and the name of the mechanic have been removed from this post.
Edit:
He has replied via email to me saying this:
Of course, I will put it to one side for you to collect.
Just a note about the Google review you left, I did explain that although other bicycle repair shops sell the cheap cast aluminium hangers, and some may try to straighten them, it is not something we sell or attempt to do. (I am pretty sure he didn't tell me this).
The issue with cheap cast aluminium hangers is that they are incredibly brittle and if you try to straighten them, they can sometimes break.
I demonstrated this to you when I put a cheap hanger in the vice and it broke easily. I then put in a brand new CNC hanger for you to try and bend, just so you can understand the difference between them both.
Please be assured if your bicycle had a CNC hanger to hanger to start with, we would have straightened it with the tool.
I hope answers your query as to why we didn't attempt to straighten it.
And then he replied to the reply I sent him saying this:
The issue with the cheap cast aluminium is they bend far too quickly and easily.
The primary object of the hanger is to protect the frame. A CNC hanger should break before frame damage occurs.
Cheap hangers that bend too easy will cause possible catastrophic damage to derailleur, chain, wheel and frame.
Please see below notes of why hangers such as Pilo, Wheels Manufacturing and Meta are better than the cheap Chinese hangers we are seeing on many bikes.
If you are still not satisfied, I am happy to order you a replacement cast hanger and replace the Pilo. I will then refund the difference in price.
Last edited:
with the derailleur and a mangled chain.
