Should truck drivers have their licences suspended for using mobile phones?‏

[glasgowcyclist]

Of course I do not agree


The law is clear that you are not committing an offence in failing to stop if the officer is not acting in the course of their duty.
how you determine that is a completely different issue

I am talking about the legal position, not whether it is a sensible course of action or not

In that case I'm eager to see supporting evidence for your position.

GC

 

[spen666]

[QUOTE 3119105, member: 45"]I asked you for your view of the sensible course of action, and you refused to go there.[/QUOTE]
The sensible course of action depends on all the facts of a situation and your own assessment of those facts

 

[glasgowcyclist]

clearly it doesn't or they would not have had to introduce specific offences for motorists re using mobile phone. They could have used careless driving if you were right.

Is there a specific offence for eating an apple while driving? A biscuit? Putting on make-up?

GC

 

[spen666]

In that case I'm eager to see supporting evidence for your position.

GC

Pop round my office and I will lend you my copy of Wilkinson's Road Traffic Law and also the case law contained on Baiili

 

[Markymark]

I would say that cycling whilst using a mobile would fit S29 quite comfortably. "If a person rides a cycle on the road without due care and attention........."

Then why did they introduce a separate one for cars if without due care and attention covered mobile phones?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Pop round my office and I will lend you my copy of Wilkinson's Road Traffic Law and also the case law contained on Baiili

Come on spen, if "The law is clear.." just state what the Act or other instrument is, or name one of the stated cases.

GC

 

[Markymark]

As above

oops, didn't see that. Don't agree, but didn't mean to ask twice.

 

[spen666]

[QUOTE 3119117, member: 45"]...and I've explained how the facts that you insist that you need in order to decide whether to stop are often not present at the time of the request.
[/quote] I agree , that is why I keep saying the decision whether to stop or not is for youand I cannot advise you on a partial set of facts

If a police officer asked you to stop when you were cycling on the road, and you did not know why, would you stop or not?

without knowing all the facts of the case I cannot answer that properly

 

[MontyVeda]

...
without knowing all the facts of the case I cannot answer that properly

Oh come on Spen, you're just avoiding a very simple question.

You're driving or cycling down the road... a police officer signals you to stop*... what do you do?

*At this point, you do not know why he/she is signalling you to stop... all you know is that you've been signalled to stop.

to make it easier for you... there's two possible answers:

1: Stop
2: Don't stop


hope this helps.

 

[spen666]

Oh come on Spen, you're just avoiding a very simple question.

You're driving or cycling down the road... a police officer signals you to stop*... what do you do?

*At this point, you do not know why he/she is signalling you to stop... all you know is that you've been signalled to stop.

to make it easier for you... there's two possible answers:

1: Stop
2: Don't stop


hope this helps.

I refer you to my earlier answer and in particular the reasoning given.

 

[MontyVeda]

I refer you to my earlier answer and in particular the reasoning given.

what reasoning?

There is no reasoning because all you see is a signal to stop.... if you stop, you'll likely find out the reason from said police officer, if you don't stop... well...

the question is a very simple one.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

That's the power to stop vehicles. That wasn't what Spen asked. Spen's question was: "Under what authority are you suggesting the police officer has the power to stop you carrying out a lawful (albeit perhaps stupid ) activity?" which is a different matter altogether.

Have you missed some of the previous posts?

This strand of the thread originated from spen's answer to martint235's post (see post#224) in relation to the power to stop cyclists using a mobile phone while riding on a road, i.e. the power to stop vehicles.

I don't know what else you think is being debated here.



GC

 

[Markymark]

...but presumably if I'm cycling and I don't know whether he's correctly stopping me for valid reason or incorrectly for a whim, I am supposed to stop either way. Once I have stopped, I can ascertain the reason and within my rights to move on if I feel it's an invalid reason and can complain, but I would have had to have stopped either way.

 

[MontyVeda]

...but presumably if I'm cycling and I don't know whether he's correctly stopping me for valid reason or incorrectly for a whim, I am supposed to stop either way. Once I have stopped, I can ascertain the reason and within my rights to move on if I feel it's an invalid reason and can complain, but I would have had to have stopped either way.

That appears to be the case... a number of us have tried asking Spen666 whether that is the case or not... but it appears that he cannot provide a simple coherent answer to what appears to be a very simple question. Maybe he should join the legal profession.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Spen's question was very clear: "Under what authority are you suggesting the police officer has the power to stop you carrying out a lawful (albeit perhaps stupid ) activity?" Stopping the cyclist is only part of that.

This is the stumbling block being discussed: the power of police to stop a vehicle on a road. Spen's position is that compliance with that instruction is optional. I say he's wrong on that. What do you say?

Moving on to your next point:

If the cyclist is not committing an offence, what grounds does a police officer have to tell them to stop doing something?

,

the important part is "If the cyclist is not committing an offence..". My position is that the cop could, if he thought the cyclist's use of a phone affected his ability to control his bike, charge him with carelsss cycling.

There is no specific offence of using a mobile while cycling but I'll ask you the same question I put to Spen: Is there a specific offence for eating an apple while driving? A biscuit? Putting on make-up?


GC

Edited to correct typo.