Should truck drivers have their licences suspended for using mobile phones?‏

[glasgowcyclist]

No. A police officer has powers to stop you at any time and ask you:

• what you’re doing
• why you’re in an area and/or where you’re going

However, you don’t have to answer any questions the police officer asks you. What's more, a police officer cannot tell you to stop doing something which is not an offence.

You're introducing police stop and account/search powers into a discussion on Road Traffic powers.

GC

 

[MontyVeda]

...

If the cyclist is not committing an offence, what grounds does a police officer have to tell them to stop doing something? It's an easy question to answer...

So easy I'm wondering why you're asking... The police may not be stopping you because you might be doing something wrong. They may be stopping someone from riding down a stretch or road for any number of reasons, such as an RTA, gas leak, fire, homicidal sniper, helicopter crash.

 

[Markymark]

...or to have a word about how fast you took that last corner.....as your riding was epic and they were well impressed, innit!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

[QUOTE 3120184, member: 45"]So, to recap...

S.163 of the RTA states that a person riding a cycle on the road must stop if requested by a police officer in uniform.

Can someone who has knowledge of the law please tell me whether there's any condition to this, or is it as the law appears to clearly state?

Remember, we're not talking about whether the officer has a valid reason to stop you, but whether a cyclist must obey the request.....[/QUOTE]


It's unconditional.

Now come on over here instead, we're having a good laugh!

GC

 

[spen666]

It's unconditional.

Now come on over here instead, we're having a good laugh!

GC

you only have to stop if the officer is acting in the execution of his duty

 

[albion]

"It is a specific offence to use a hand–held phone or similar device, when driving. Most offences will be dealt with by way of 3 penalty points and a £60 Fixed Penalty Notice but if the matter proceeds to a Court hearing, the fine can be as much as £1,000 or £2,500 if you were driving a bus, coach or any heavy goods vehicle."

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/mobile_phone.php
I really think they now need to change it to an outright ban.

Hands free is available to everyone so this double distraction needs to be stopped in its wheel tracks.
I was right in telling off my bus driver the other day. I'm certain he would have been sacked or 'moved on' if the licensing council and his company knew.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

you only have to stop if the officer is acting in the execution of his duty

We're going to go round in circles here unless you cite specifically the supporting evidence for your position that stopping is optional.


GC

 

[Shaun]

After five pages of circular discussion about stopping powers and whether you should stop or not, I'd like you all to stop - and move the discussion forward please.

Thanks,
Shaun

 

[glasgowcyclist]

After five pages of circular discussion about stopping powers and whether you should stop or not, I'd like you all to stop - and move the discussion forward please.

Thanks,
Shaun

I agree and would not normally have pursued a point quite so far. However, it's not mere pedantry but an important legal point which I felt had to be clarified. There may be people reading this who are new to cycling (or driving) and risk breaking the law if they accept spen666's advice as accurate.

Would you object to the matter being cleared up in a thread of its own?

GC

 

[Shaun]

Would you object to the matter being cleared up in a thread of its own?

Yes - because pursuing it in another thread would be no different to here; it has not been clarified with five pages of discussion so it won't benefit from further circular discussion.

 

[spen666]

I agree and would not normally have pursued a point quite so far. However, it's not mere pedantry but an important legal point which I felt had to be clarified. There may be people reading this who are new to cycling (or driving) and risk breaking the law if they accept spen666's advice as accurate.

Would you object to the matter being cleared up in a thread of its own?

GC

I have not given advice. I have repeatedly in this thread refused to give advice and have stated it is up to the individual to make their own decision on their actions.

I have stated (accurately) what the law is. How you or anyone decide to act is a matter for you.

@glasgowcyclist and you @User may care to consider the fact the appelate courts have ruled that on this point in a whole series of cases, including R v Waterfield [1963] 3 All ER 659, and Hoffman v Thomas [1974] RTR 182

In the case of R v Waterfield [1963] 3 All ER 659, the court held that section 163 does not permit the police to stop a vehicle for an improper purpose. This line of reasoning was followed a decade later in Hoffman v Thomas [1974] RTR 182 in which the court held that a constable must be acting in execution of his duty for a stop under what is now section 163 to be lawful.

The issue in Hoffman was whether a police constable had power to require a motorist to stop and at a census point. The court in that case found that assisting in the conduct of a census was not part of the police officer’s duty, which at common law is to protect life and property and, as such, the constable was not acting in the execution of his duty and so the motorist was not guilty.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Spen, much as I'd like to continue this, Shaun has asked us to stop. I'm disappointed that he's taken the view that we can't open a separate thread for it, but it's his forum.

GC

 

[Mugshot]

Do it quick while he's not online

 

[spen666]

Have either of you bothered to read the 2 cases I sited?

The courts have made it clear that you are not committing an offence of failing to stop if the police officer is not acting in the execution of his duty.

There is little point in my continuing to take part in this debate when you seem to think your knowledge of the law exceeds that of even the appelate courts.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Have either of you bothered to read the 2 cases I sited?

The courts have made it clear that you are not committing an offence of failing to stop if the police officer is not acting in the execution of his duty.

There is little point in my continuing to take part in this debate when you seem to think your knowledge of the law exceeds that of even the appelate courts.

The debate is already over, see Shaun's post above.
Please don't get this thread locked.

GC