So what sort of rides do folk want?

[nickyboy]

+1. If you're ride leader, duty of care is your job (well, it's every rider's job, really, but the buck stops with you). End of story. If people turn up with no map or GPS, well that's because they (quite rightly) expect someone to know the way, and they shouldn't have to. Myself and all the ride leaders I know check out their routes properly first, and even if we dish out GPXs you cannot and should not rely on them, or expect anyone else to. If anyone thinks that having someone without an OS map/Garmin/other GPS with them is going to ruin the ride for them or anyone, then they need to get a life, or join some boring chain gang or other.

Depends on how you decide to organise the ride if you're leading it. You can keep everyone together with waymarking etc. Or you can allow folk to drift into smaller groups with regrouping at cafes. Depends on how you want the ride to operate but if you go for the latter then people do need to have some element of self-sufficiency regarding navigation. I appreciate that the Fridays' rides are fully waymarked but not all ride organisers want to do that.

I think so long as it's made clear at the outset that some personal responsibility is needed for navigation and/or mechanicals that's fine and riders should only come on the ride if they are willing to accept this.

 

[BRounsley]

+1. If you're ride leader, duty of care is your job (well, it's every rider's job, really, but the buck stops with you). End of story. If people turn up with no map or GPS, well that's because they (quite rightly) expect someone to know the way, and they shouldn't have to. Myself and all the ride leaders I know check out their routes properly first, and even if we dish out GPXs you cannot and should not rely on them, or expect anyone else to. If anyone thinks that having someone without an OS map/Garmin/other GPS with them is going to ruin the ride for them or anyone, then they need to get a life, or join some boring chain gang or other.

“Organising” a ride can come in many flavours. Who said anything about a ride always being “no one gets left behind” or follow the “leader”, you've assumed that. If you turn up to an organised ride like “Manchester to Blackpool”, you don’t have a guy with a flag at the front that stops and fixes your puncture.

Human decency says you try and help someone. They don’t have to be on the ride. I fixed my fair share of other peoples punctures over the years. The counter argument to being handhold, is taking responsibility.

So before a ride I, check my bikes is in working order, I have a repair kit, I have a bit of food, I have money and a phone, I have the mobile numbers of other on the ride and that I have the route. Things can go wrong but you try and mitigate these factors.

Now to apply the above to the Llandudno ride

“no one gets left behind”, yes with their consent they did. You can’t fix a broken rear detailer.

“follow the leader”, unless he’s helping an injured rider. His aim was to catch the ride backup but that relied on others having a map.

“then they need to get a life, or join some boring chain gang or other” – a bit school yard name calling, but to cycle that distance in testing weather involved a level of pace making. Others used the train, this isn’t a dig at them, but my aim was to cycle to Llandudno.

 

[mjr]

If a person turns out for a group ride, with a designated 'leader' and a description that says 'no one gets left behind', I really don't see why this is so outrageous.

And I think that attitude is why my local group stopped using "leader" (unless it's one of very few rides actually led in that sense) and started using "guide" or "wayfinder". We do our best to help and we haven't left anyone yet, but try to avoid promises real (or implied by the overstatement of "leader" by certain other organisations) because we probably can't cope with absolutely everything newcomers might throw at us.

 

[nickyboy]

This is very interesting. I think making things clear beforehand is the crucial point - things like, is this a group or just a collection of individuals, and what pace is the ride going to be. It is my misfortune that navigating is something I'm just not very good at, map or no map. So I like going on group rides where people can help me out, rather than wandering about on my own getting lost.

However, I can see that when some people organise 'group' rides they don't really mean 'group' as I understand the word, and 'no one gets left behind' can also mean 'except if you're too slow or you don't know the way, because that would ruin the ride'. Perhaps it's to do with the difference between social cycling and trying to form a sort of training ride?

I think we're not far off agreeing (!) If you look back at what I said about the ride to Llandudno I said that we will inevitably split up into smaller groups with regrouping at designated locations. There was no way I was going to be able to keep so many riders together without a full waymarking/tec team. So it boiled down to whether I wanted to go the whole organisational hog like the Fridays or do something a bit less organised that inevitably places an some onus on participants to be a bit self-reliant. Rightly or wrongly I went for the latter and that was made clear in advance.

I wouldn't call it a training ride; rather a social group ride without the requirement for us all to be in the same place at the same time.

 

[HertzvanRental]

Surely it boils down to clarity by the "organizer" so that any potential participant knows what to expect and "honesty" by said participant insofar as he can meet the criteria required.

 

[StuAff]

Depends on how you decide to organise the ride if you're leading it. You can keep everyone together with waymarking etc. Or you can allow folk to drift into smaller groups with regrouping at cafes. Depends on how you want the ride to operate but if you go for the latter then people do need to have some element of self-sufficiency regarding navigation. I appreciate that the Fridays' rides are fully waymarked but not all ride organisers want to do that.

I think so long as it's made clear at the outset that some personal responsibility is needed for navigation and/or mechanicals that's fine and riders should only come on the ride if they are willing to accept this.

Fair enough, as long as you're upfront about it and you make absolutely certain everyone knows that's the plan. You have on your own rides, btw

This is very interesting. I think making things clear beforehand is the crucial point - things like, is this a group or just a collection of individuals, and what pace is the ride going to be. It is my misfortune that navigating is something I'm just not very good at, map or no map. So I like going on group rides where people can help me out, rather than wandering about on my own getting lost.

However, I can see that when some people organise 'group' rides they don't really mean 'group' as I understand the word, and 'no one gets left behind' can also mean 'except if you're too slow or you don't know the way, because that would ruin the ride'. Perhaps it's to do with the difference between social cycling and trying to form a sort of training ride?

That.

“Organising” a ride can come in many flavours. Who said anything about a ride always being “no one gets left behind” or follow the “leader”, you've assumed that. If you turn up to an organised ride like “Manchester to Blackpool”, you don’t have a guy with a flag at the front that stops and fixes your puncture.

Human decency says you try and help someone. They don’t have to be on the ride. I fixed my fair share of other peoples punctures over the years. The counter argument to being handhold, is taking responsibility.

So before a ride I, check my bikes is in working order, I have a repair kit, I have a bit of food, I have money and a phone, I have the mobile numbers of other on the ride and that I have the route. Things can go wrong but you try and mitigate these factors.

Now to apply the above to the Llandudno ride

“no one gets left behind”, yes with their consent they did. You can’t fix a broken rear detailer.

“follow the leader”, unless he’s helping an injured rider. His aim was to catch the ride backup but that relied on others having a map.

“then they need to get a life, or join some boring chain gang or other” – a bit school yard name calling, but to cycle that distance in testing weather involved a level of pace making. Others used the train, this isn’t a dig at them, but my aim was to cycle to Llandudno.

Now, I've been on rides where the former and its ilk took place, and I've been injured a couple of times. Doesn't matter if you're organising a huge event like the BHF rides or ride leader and AN Other only, you have a responsibility. If someone needs to get on a train because of a mechanical, or into an ambulance, then you need to make sure they're going to be OK and that the rest of the ride gets where it needs to go. And if someone's bike, or them, is despite your best efforts, not up to the job, then yes, they do need to be left behind- if and when there's a suitable bail-out for them. All the things you've mentioned as mitigating factors are par for the course on every ride I've been on- except the route being in everyone's possession. Weather conditions, rider conditions, roadworks etc all mean The Route is often not set in stone. Anyone who claims to always follow exactly the course they've planned out at the start of a day/night, even just on their own- regardless of method- is either a liar or makes the most meticulous ride leaders I know look like devil-may-care spontaneous types, blessed with the best of fortune. And they're not. As is clear from the reports on Llandudno, Nick did a great job and was absolutely upfront about what was needed and expected from riders, and what they could expect from him. And he couldn't prepare for the weather.

 

[doughnut]

“no one gets left behind”, yes with their consent they did. You can’t fix a broken rear detailer.

Dammit, Brian, my therapist just discharged me last week following the derailleur incident - I'd completely got it out of my mind. That's me back on the medication again now!

 

[rich p]

Dammit, Brian, my therapist just discharged me last week following the derailleur incident - I'd completely got it out of my mind. That's me back on the medication again now!

FYI, beer isn't really medication

 

[mjr]

Dammit, Brian, my therapist just discharged me last week following the derailleur incident - I'd completely got it out of my mind. That's me back on the medication again now!

And actually, not strictly true. If it's really broken, unbolt it, shorten the chain and run as single-speed. DAMHIK

 

[ColinJ]

You can’t fix a broken rear detailer.

Obviously, some mechanical problems can't be fixed out on the road, but you might be surprised at how many can be ...

And actually, not strictly true. If it's really broken, unbolt it, shorten the chain and run as single-speed. DAMHIK

Indeed ... For example, on a group ride in Spain, a rider's rear derailleur went into his back wheel. It destroyed the mech, ripped off the mech hanger, snapped several spokes, and broke the chain.

We took off his broken derailleur and repaired the chain, turning the bike into a single-speed. We also removed the broken spokes and managed to get the wheel true enough and strong enough to ride back to the hotel.

 

[BRounsley]

..........If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The A-Team.….explosion…..... pan to man fixing a derailer with a twig….another explosion….someone eating cake….. another explosion.......

 

[Spinney]

..........If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The A-Team.….explosion…..... pan to man fixing a derailer with a twig….another explosion….someone eating cake….. another explosion.......

Nah - pan to team welding armour plate to the bike then doing a Butch & Sundance final exit impression through a French crowd throwing bottles of wee at them...
Dah dah daaa, da da daaa...

 

[BRounsley]

Nah - pan to team welding armour plate to the bike then doing a Butch & Sundance final exit impression through a French crowd throwing bottles of wee at them...
Dah dah daaa, da da daaa...

It’s high in electrolytes….maybe he was a concerned fan and Froom looked a bit peaky…thinking on his feet….we should be commending him on being able to perform under pressure.

 

[Buck]

OK. I'm pretty new to road cycling with my previous experiences being a dawdle around on a 'green lane' or country park with my two young boys on our MTBs.

I bought my bike off a guy on here around 4 weeks ago and as I explored the forum, I read the two ride threads by @nickyboy and @ColinJ. Despite the one in the Peaks being a couple of months ago, and the Settle one being beyond my ability, I still read both threads from start to finish as they were both interesting and gave me a flavour of what the rides were like from a physical sense but also the people which is so important.

FWIW you both set out the ride conditions and plan very well and I could see what the days ride looked like so there was no risk of "Oh, I didn't realise!" And everybody could see how the ride related to their skill in terms of distance/elevation etc.

I'm quite happy to meet up with people on a meet/ride like this but my over arching concerns would be (a) have I bitten off more than I can chew leading to me struggling and (b) holding others back by being less unfit/experienced. Now I know from reading on here that you're all shouting "No!" at me and I understand but I guess that's human nature.

A social aspect including cake / beer is always appealing as its a chance to ask questions, compare notes, laugh at the best bits and build a level of trust and friendship to carry forward to the next ride(s)

I'd love to be able to join another Peak ride in the future. With enough notice I can often juggle things around and call in favours from the boss to allow me to attend.

 

[doughnut]

I did actually go on both rides organised by @nickyboy and @ColinJ and without a doubt I was the weakest rider on both. On both rides I also had those same concerns that you mention.

So I've learnt that it is actually true that no one is left behind - because if they were then I would have been that person on both rides. No one on the trips ever said anything about me being a lightweight and spoiling the day - in fact, I've had more encouragement from these two rides than any other riding that I do.

For both rides I specifically went out to train for a hilly route for a few weeks beforehand - for the Glossop ride I drove down there the week before the ride to check I could do the first (biggest) hill ok. At the Settle ride I loaded two escape routes into my GPS as well as the full route. That way I could bail out if it really was too hard or that I felt I was clearly going to upset peoples plans to get to the train station in time at the end.

I've got to say that I'm not a great fan of people saying "no one is left behind". If I really was a complete lightweight on any of these rides, I'd like to say "Its ok, I can make my own way from here" and not feel like its spoiling everyones day because they might spend hours worrying that really they shouldn't have left anyone behind. Having escape routes available and planned in advance are a good idea if you want to have the option of bailing out.

So @Buck , I would recommend you sign up for any Peak ride you can - they are excellent rides in excellent company, you will not regret it. When you sign up we can discuss escape routes and worry about whether our legs are up to it together - and agree that when anyone says "no one is left behind" that we know that we mean "no one is left behind unless we damn well want to be left behind".

My problem right now is that I've been in work for over 30 years and never taken a sickie, but I also want to go on @nickyboys Tour of Britain ride. Hmmm, what to do....