Tear Apart My Idea for a Women's Tour

[KneesUp]

Well, that the TdF done for another year, so that means I have to click a few more links to get cycling news, rather than it being on the homepage. My daughter (5) was quite excited by it all, but as with all sports that make it to TV, she wanted to know where the girls were. She wants to ride it, you see (being sensible she's only interested in the white jersey for now, she says)

So, here's my idea. It's based on no performance data at all, but I'd be interested to see what you all think of it. Why not run a mixed race?

Now obviously that wouldn't be so great if you just let the women join the peleton and compete over exactly the same course. I expect you'd get mainly women towards the back and mainly men toward the front. But what about if the following changes were introduced:

1) Teams can have up to 12 riders
2) At least 3 riders per team must be women
3) Women complete roughly 2/3rd of each stage. This could be done by either having a turn-off for a separate finish, or a different start point depending on the profile. This would also allow more towns to be included for starts and finishes.
4) Team competition time must include the time of at least one woman

I think it would make for interesting tactics and interesting viewing. What do you reckon?

(sits back and waits for 1,000 reasons why it won't work)

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

Sounds good.

 

[up hill struggle]

don't know if it would work for the tdf but i like the thought of mixed gender races, just having got back into bikes this year i started watching the racing on itv few months back & enjoyed the womens races as much as the mens & having just watched my 1st tdf was surprised that there was no womens racing, what about having female races on the days off to begin with to judge how popular it is?

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

don't know if it would work for the tdf but i like the thought of mixed gender races, just having got back into bikes this year i started watching the racing on itv few months back & enjoyed the womens races as much as the mens & having just watched my 1st tdf was surprised that there was no womens racing, what about having female races on the days off to begin with to judge how popular it is?

This thread might interest you:
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/how-to-grow-womens-pro-cycling.108806/

 

[Hont]

a) 12 rider teams seems like too many. You'd be talking about 66 more riders. And you couldn't reduce the number of male riders because I can't see male riders giving up their Tour spots or non-pro Tour teams being happy about their livelihood being given to participants in a (currently) less commercially successful sport.
b) Mixed gender races? I dunno. I just see a can of worms being opened there. The odd one day race? Possibly. Three week Grand Tours. Really not sure. It would be a gamble, as the last thing you would want is it to actually set women's racing back or make it less attractive for women to enter the sport.

Golf allow the best women to compete in male Tournaments, but it hardly ever happens. I guess because it makes more sense to compete at the top in your own tour than down the leaderboard in another. And I know some men were unhappy, when it did happen, because if you allow a woman a place (usually the top, already well-earning one), you have to take one away from a (usually struggling, desperate to keep his Tour card) male player.

 

[KneesUp]

a) 12 rider teams seems like too many. You'd be talking about 66 more riders. And you couldn't reduce the number of male riders because I can't see male riders giving up their Tour spots or non-pro Tour teams being happy about their livelihood being given to participants in a (currently) less commercially successful sport.
b) Mixed gender races? I dunno. I just see a can of worms being opened there. The odd one day race? Possibly. Three week Grand Tours. Really not sure. It would be a gamble, as the last thing you would want is it to actually set women's racing back or make it less attractive for women to enter the sport.

Golf allow the best women to compete in male Tournaments, but it hardly ever happens. I guess because it makes more sense to compete at the top in your own tour than down the leaderboard in another. And I know some men were unhappy, when it did happen, because if you allow a woman a place (usually the top, already well-earning one), you have to take one away from a (usually struggling, desperate to keep his Tour card) male player.

It a maximum of 12 - some might have 9 still. How about if it was that you could have up to 9 on a team that were all men, as now, but you could also add up to 3 women?

I was imagining there would be separate leaderboards and jerseys - there would have to be because the courses would be different. I don't see it as taking places away from men so much as making it bigger by having a race within a race.

 

[up hill struggle]

sorry when i said about mixed gender races what i had ment was 2 separate races but on the same day & same event. First few races i had recorded on tv wernt watched in the order they were taped so saw a few programs with ladies races being held then the mens after.

you would end up with men complaining they were held up by the girls if you tried to run at the same time (easy excuse for having a bad day)

 

[KneesUp]

sorry when i said about mixed gender races what i had ment was 2 separate races but on the same day & same event. First few races i had recorded on tv wernt watched in the order they were taped so saw a few programs with ladies races being held then the mens after.

you would end up with men complaining they were held up by the girls if you tried to run at the same time (easy excuse for having a bad day)

Hopefully that would be seen as an excuse though - you don't hear them saying they were held up by slower riders now.

Also, the idea of having women complete only c. 2/3 of the course is that they wouldn't have to conserve energy as much, so, for example, if the shorter stage has only a Cat 3 and an H.C. climb whereas the longer course has a Cat 1 after the H.C. the women on the team could use everything to help their team knowing that they didn't have the extra climb to come - as I said, having them compete on different courses in different competitions but on the same roads would be interesting - and of course they would also be in one 'common' competition for the team prize.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

And this one: www.cyclechat.net/threads/could-women-riders-catch-the-tdf-men.160858/

As for the specific idea, I think it's nuts. Having a seperate finish where some racers turn off 2/3 of the way through is a recipe for disaster which has nothing to do with gender. And the thing is that the TdF has a team competition within it, but it isn't a team competition, it's an individual competition (or a series of individual competitions) with individuals supported by teams. You'd have to change the whole nature of the race to implement this idea.

I would much prefer, and the top women riders would much prefer, a proper women's World Tour, with some events that parallel the men's (e.g. the major day races, where the roads are already closed for virtually the whole weekend as they often already have sportives), and some that are there own thing (e.g. GTs).

Personally, I think that having a women's squad should be part of the price of being a WT-recognised team and that the UCI should part-subsidize this.

 

[KneesUp]

And this one: www.cyclechat.net/threads/could-women-riders-catch-the-tdf-men.160858/

As for the specific idea, I think it's nuts. Having a seperate finish where some racers turn off 2/3 of the way through is a recipe for disaster which has nothing to do with gender..

Why? What's wrong with signing it so that, for example, at a roundabout one route goes straight on to the next town, and the other route goes left to the nearest town? I'm sure they could manage to sign it properly so the peloton could split, with big inflatble Vittel signs and people with flags giving them plenty of warning.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Personally, I think that having a women's squad should be part of the price of being a WT-recognised team and that the UCI should part-subsidize this.

Where would that leave the existing womens' teams? The major mens' teams may try to make their counterparts merge with them, which would compromise their independence.

Mind, if Wiggle-Honda merged with Sky they could become Skwiggley....

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Where would that leave the existing womens' teams? The major mens' teams may try to make their counterparts merge with them, which would compromise their independence.

Almost none of the existing women's teams have any kind of secure existence with the exception of the ones that are connected to WT teams, and even those practically survive on handouts. I'm pretty sure the current situation is the king of 'independence' born of necessity rather than choice.