The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Justinslow]

No, not stupid, just misinformed and misled. You have consciously or subconsciously bought in to the idea that cycling is a dangerous activity which requires PPE when for normal cycling that's demonstrably untrue.

And stop claiming that people have told you not to wear a helmet, or that people have said wearing a helmet is wrong: your constant self-portrayal of a persecuted victim is getting tiresome.

So what is your message then? As I'm not really sure what you are trying to tell me!

 

[Justinslow]

So, what is the underlying rationale behind what looks like a hysterical reaction to the very low probability of a trivial head injury v no concern about similar probability of a similarly trivial knee injury?

My head contains my good looks and other distinguishing features including my brain.

 

[Justinslow]

Nothing sells so well as perceived danger.
That's me I think, arguing with one person who cannot understand how a whole nation across the North Sea can ride sans helmets without banging their heads is a waste of time.

We don't sell drugs in cafes yet neither.

 

[Hacienda71]

I'm not feeling persecuted about it, of course it's your absolute right not to wear one just as it is mine - to wear one. Yes you're right it is part of my cycling "uniform", I slant more to the "sporting" side of cycling so for me it's something I don't think about, everybody involved in cycle sport wears a helmet, I compete in TT's ride in sportives reliability rides etc, for me there is no issue. I do take issue with people blathering on about how cycling is not dangerous, when in some cases it clearly is and a helmet may be useful (and I'm not just talking about preventing serious injury, preventing minor injury is a good enough reason for me to wear one).

Point of order. If you hill climb a lot of people do not wear helmets. Video from the 2014 National gives it probably 50/50.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuEaz5vOm8

Also the CTT do not insist upon helmets BC, LVRC and TLI do but that is racing not TTing
We get a few on J2/1 who don't wear lids. I do but I am not in favour of mandatory use on a day to day basis.

 

[Justinslow]

Point of order. If you hill climb a lot of people do not wear helmets. Video from the 2014 National gives it probably 50/50.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuEaz5vOm8

Also the CTT do not insist upon helmets BC, LVRC and TLI do but that is racing not TTing
We get a few on J2/1 who don't wear lids. I do but I am not in favour of mandatory use on a day to day basis.

Absolutely, our club does not insist on helmet wearing for TT's and our open hill climb is on closed roads again many competitors do not wear helmets.
I too am not in favour of mandatory helmet wearing, ages ago said I don't always use one on family rides.
But @User whats the big deal if I do use one?

 

[benb]

So what is your message then? As I'm not really sure what you are trying to tell me!

My message is that people should make an informed decision; that cycling isn't particularly dangerous; that the evidence shows cycle helmets are ineffective at reducing head injuries; that there are many activities with a broadly similar risk (ie very low) of head injury that we do not consider helmets necessary for; that helmets portray cycling as a dangerous activity and that puts people off; that the constant drip of "you're mad/stupid not to wear a helmet, my friend wore one and it totally saved his life" is infuriating and rude

Will that do for starters?

 

[mjr]

Many on here push the opinion that helmet wearing is wrong (without actually saying it) that is obvious.

I don't think there's many of us. There's me and one or two others.

Even then, I think you can do in private something that I consider wrong and I mainly object only because your organisation (BC) is forcing people on charity fundraisers to wear helmets or not ride (BC should stop doing that), that the apparent greater crash rate of helmet wearers puts more strain on the NHS (so we should try to discover why helmeteers crash more and whether it can be reduced) and that each helmet-wearer is eroding one of our greatest defences against a helmet law (that government dare not confront the majority of cyclists for something that offers no significant benefit).

 

[Mugshot]

All I want you to do, if you are wishing to participate in a thread about cycle helmets, is actually to do so. To discuss why it is that you feel the need to wear one, why you don't wear one in circumstances where it is more likely to be effective but do wear one in circumstances where it is less likely to help. Why you feel cycling is so much more dangerous than other activities etc etc etc. In short to be prepared to discuss all those things you prefer to avoid talking about.

Sir, I salute your courage, your strength your indefatigability.

 

[Justinslow]

None whatsoever, something that has been said to you quite a few times already. You are the one making a big deal out of it. You assert your right to wear a helmet, as though there were proposals to outlaw the practice, and portray a pseudo victim status as though your choices were under attack.
All I want you to do, if you are wishing to participate in a thread about cycle helmets, is actually to do so. To discuss why it is that you feel the need to wear one, why you don't wear one in circumstances where it is more likely to be effective but do wear one in circumstances where it is less likely to help. Why you feel cycling is so much more dangerous than other activities etc etc etc. In short to be prepared to discuss all those things you prefer to avoid talking about.

My choices do appear to be under attack in this thread, as do many others who've bothered to post along similar lines.
I know from my riding budies that I am not alone, it is funny how the same old names crop up time and again badgering and teasing working on wordplay trying to get people to say something which shoots themselves in the foot. Just accept certain people will want to wear them just as certain people will not want to.
If I think somebody posts something that I don't agree with then I will challenge that view, such as @totallyfixed statement that cycling is not dangerous.
I've got no problem if you don't wear a helmet I don't feel I have to justify to you my reasons.

 

[Fab Foodie]

This thread is like deja vu all over again ....

 

[MontyVeda]

...
If I think somebody posts something that I don't agree with then I will challenge that view, such as @totallyfixed statement that cycling is not dangerous.
....

I made that statement too and as i recall, you didn't want to discuss it beyond "I think it is dangerous and that's that".

I tried to bring other comparable activities into the debate which can also result in head injuries, but you didn't want to discus that either. You sir, are doing nothing but trolling this debate.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Yeah but at least it is all here in one thread.

Which is indeed 'A Good Thing'.

 

[Fab Foodie]

On the subject of cycling not being a dangerous thing .....

http://www.gicentre.net/blog/2013/11/24/risk-cycling-and-denominator-neglect

 

[Justinslow]

On the subject of cycling not being a dangerous thing .....

http://www.gicentre.net/blog/2013/11/24/risk-cycling-and-denominator-neglect

No need to worry then,



Unless you were one of the 14 killed or 647 seriously injured in 2013 in Greater London.
If cycling is not dangerous surely it would be zero?

 

[Arrowfoot]

Nothing sells so well as perceived danger.
That's me I think, arguing with one person who cannot understand how a whole nation across the North Sea can ride sans helmets without banging their heads is a waste of time.

Is it possible that the whole nation across the North Sea has a much safer cycling ecosystem such as

• comprehensive and segregated bike lanes with controlled crossings etc
• in a collision the presumed liability sits with the motorised party
• they start from young and that they and their cycles are one (better control)
• they ride at a much slower speed

They hardly wear lycra or cycle specific clothes and would you like to offer your view.