Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
That makes sense. He'd be no use if he was awake.
The pro peleton needs Wiggins.
- Thread starter elgee
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That makes sense. He'd be no use if he was awake.
Mattonsea
Über Member
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- New Forest
Oh sorry I didn't realize you started CC, so your opinions are more valid than a new member. Its a good post so let it run !!
Sky's defeciencies are being painfully exposed and I do wonder if they have any tactical nouse in the team. It was a citicism I first read in Robert Millr's book. Recently reading Yates's book, he describes riding a stage in advance and planning the exact attack point, that as a DS he's thinking 5 days ahead, I wonder if that's still happening. He also said Brailsford often stays in the bus because he gets frustrated in the car not being able to see what's happening.
How many promising riders have not progressed with Sky, how many have been passed over. EBH, Lopez, the Yates twins plus others. Wiggins and Kennaugh not in this team, Cavendish's treatment. I can't think of many other teams who seem to foul things up so much.
How many promising riders have not progressed with Sky, how many have been passed over. EBH, Lopez, the Yates twins plus others. Wiggins and Kennaugh not in this team, Cavendish's treatment. I can't think of many other teams who seem to foul things up so much.
400bhp
Guru
But (in their eyes) it's all about the win, not the individual. So they just treat everyone as pawns. It's a "team" set up and run like a corporation. I'm not as blunt as Marmion and they will survive but he has made some good points. They have money to throw at it so they don't care about "casualties".
But this is also their weakness. I reckon Nibali would have beaten Froome anyway at this year's tour. His tactics were fantastic and they [Astana] had clearly decided to attack when they weren't supposed to attack. Brilliant.
If we look at risk vs reward, they try and remove one aspect of the internal risk (lets call it alpha risk), be that having a team of individuals that have the "numbers", such that one can replace another in the Sky train. What they hadn't covered is the beta risk, i.e. the risk that their top rider exits the tour early. Now for most teams, they cover the beta risk to some extent, but with Sky this is one area where they could have covered it almost in full, i.e. because of their money they could put in Wiggins.
Another aspect is the fear factor on the other competitors when a big name/former world champion/TDF winner is in the team. It puts doubt in other cyclists minds. Sky had the opportunity to use this but didn't. Look at the effect that Jason Kenny's Olympic champion had on the sprints yesterday in the Commonwealth sprint. He isn't in form but could progress to some extent because of his status.
Flick of the Elbow
Guru
- Location
- Edinburgh
^ That's all very well if Wiggins could be relied upon to play the loyal team mate whilst Plan A is in operation. But that's the problem, he's too much of a prima donna for that to work.
AndyRM
XOXO
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- North Shields
I've been thinking about the criticism of Wiggins as a prima donna with a massive ego quite a lot recently.
The way I see it, he has been built up to have that ruthless, arrogant streak by Dave Brailsford. To be dropped from the team the way he has been is sure to cause bitterness and resentment. Coupled with the media furore around Wiggins/Froome I think that a person who has spoken candidly about mental health issues is obviously having a hard time.
He is undoubtedly a hugely talented cyclist and will always have my respect. Personally though, I think he is quite a fragile character, which isn't always considered.
The way I see it, he has been built up to have that ruthless, arrogant streak by Dave Brailsford. To be dropped from the team the way he has been is sure to cause bitterness and resentment. Coupled with the media furore around Wiggins/Froome I think that a person who has spoken candidly about mental health issues is obviously having a hard time.
He is undoubtedly a hugely talented cyclist and will always have my respect. Personally though, I think he is quite a fragile character, which isn't always considered.
Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
I didn't realise you only read part of threads before replying; if you had continued to read the thread beyond that post then you'd have seen I admit I got it wrong. But thanks for your contribution. As always.
400bhp
Guru
I see where you are coming from. If that's the case what the hell are Sky's plans for him? To arse around on the track and bugger off to California once a year.
I don't buy it.
Indeed, and I think the fact that Porte was not only included in the squad, but was designated team leader when Froome crashed out, is far more interesting than Brad not being included.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-says-sky-has-taken-anabsolute-kicking-at-tour-de-france
Mattonsea
Über Member
- Location
- New Forest
No problem anytime
A good argument. I think my reason for posting initially was to see if I was missing something underpinning the decision to leave Wiggins out. At the end of the day he is a winner with all the baggage that goes with that - we don't have to think too hard to come up with a list of champions in all disciplines who have generated a range of opposing sentiments - the thing they all share though is a will to win even in the most adverse circumstances. Personally, I think his inclusion in the team would have provided an exciting edge. Who knows what would have happened but my guess is that Sky would have had somebody on the podium. His future surely lies with another team run by people with nounce and a modicum of loyalty (perhaps a British trait rather than a corporate one).
AndyRM
XOXO
- Location
- North Shields
I agree with all of that, but not your brackets.
I may be misreading your post, but for me the idea of loyalty in professional sports is nonsense.
I agree but to me loyalty, not blind or irrational,
includes the proviso that an athlete who has a proven track record has the wherewithal to come good on the day. Over the years there have been many top athletes who were not selected because they had not peaked when selection trials were held. Maybe I'm wrong but to me it pays to look at the bigger picture and stay loyal to people who have proved themselves over the long-term. Hope this clarifies my post.
I've said it before and will say it again, wiggo should have been in the team for the tour this year.
I do not really buy this prima donna thing, and what I see of froome makes me think he's the one with the attitude problem between them. But what can we really know from the outside, and reading partial / biased accounts?
As for whether the peleton needs him? Probably not. Yes, he's a character and I like him lots, but there are other characters in the sport and life goes on .. You know summed up in this: "The king is dead, long live the King"
I do not really buy this prima donna thing, and what I see of froome makes me think he's the one with the attitude problem between them. But what can we really know from the outside, and reading partial / biased accounts?
As for whether the peleton needs him? Probably not. Yes, he's a character and I like him lots, but there are other characters in the sport and life goes on .. You know summed up in this: "The king is dead, long live the King"
