What, if anything, did I do wrong?

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benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
I almost got wiped out yesterday on the way home.

I was at this location, turning left from Ridge Road onto the A24. In front of me a scooter had just turned left, the same way as I was going. I was aware of a van behind, but he had definitely seen me as he had not tried to overtake.

As I stopped at the give way line, the van pulled up to my right. I remember looking at his indicator, and he wasn't indicating left, and as I know he had already seen me before I thought he must have been turning right.

A gap in traffic comes, and we both go. Imagine my surprise when he turns left into me! His wing mirror caught me on the shoulder, I hammered on the side of the van whilst shouting, and somehow managed to drag myself and the bike out of the way.

He pulled up round the corner and we discussed the incident. I was amazingly calm in the circumstances.

He admitted he had seen me, and said he thought I had gone at the same time as the scooter. Maybe our lights had merged together or something. He was very apologetic, but went on to say that I should have been wearing high vis!! Odd, as it was night time, my jacket has reflective strips, and my double rear light was flashing away!

Anyway, no damage to the bike, and I just have a slight bruise to the shoulder, so I consider myself quite fortunate.

I really wasn't thinking straight though, as I didn't get his details. I do have the company name and reg from the video though, but with no damage to me or the bike, and his fairly contrite attitude, I wasn't planning to take it further.

The video doesn't actually show the van, as he had stopped and I had scrambled away before he had entered the field of view. I'll check the audio tonight to see if that has anything useful on.

Could I have avoided it? If so, how?
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Only thing is to make sure you've taken primary, but it's not always possible if you come to a halt quickly. Driver not looking properly.
 
Glad you weren't hurt in a bad way.

You're asking for advice, so I hope this doesn't come across as patronising: When I'm at lights or a Give Way and waiting to go with a line of cars alongside me, I don't only check indicators. Eye contact is above rubies.

I have a good look at the driver and sometimes even do a sort of 'chopper' motion with my left palm to say I'm going straight ahead.

I've also been known to slightly jiggle my bike into a more 'central and ahead' position at the junction - although this depends on the gradient and how fast I think I can get away. I do it partly because I feel that further movement after everyone's stopped highlights the presence of a cyclist.

Everybody loses concentration sometimes, although for motorists it is less unlikely not to involve causing pain and damage to others. Well done for not ranting at him. With no damage to the machine, I think you did the right thing. Others on this thread might not.

I hope the above makes sense.
 

Linford

Guest
As fossy said, if you had filtered up the side of him, then expect from him to not see you and position yourself accordingly, or wait until he is clear of the junction.

It just looks like his mind was elsewhere tbh
 

lukesdad

Guest
You'd probably would have had to of been there really to give a view, perhaps a slight loss of concentration by both parties ? Assuming other road users are going to act in a certain way is not allways a sound strategy either by cyclists or van drivers.
 
OP
OP
benb

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
As fossy said, if you had filtered up the side of him, then expect from him to not see you and position yourself accordingly, or wait until he is clear of the junction.

It just looks like his mind was elsewhere tbh

Read my OP again. I didn't filter up his inside.

I was ahead of him, in position to turn left. He came alongside me, and then turned across me to also turn left.
 
OP
OP
benb

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
You'd probably would have had to of been there really to give a view, perhaps a slight loss of concentration by both parties ? Assuming other road users are going to act in a certain way is not allways a sound strategy either by cyclists or van drivers.

Maybe slight loss of concentration from me. Utterly crap observation skills from him.
 
OP
OP
benb

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
Glad you weren't hurt in a bad way.

You're asking for advice, so I hope this doesn't come across as patronising: When I'm at lights or a Give Way and waiting to go with a line of cars alongside me, I don't only check indicators. Eye contact is above rubies.

I have a good look at the driver and sometimes even do a sort of 'chopper' motion with my left palm to say I'm going straight ahead.

I've also been known to slightly jiggle my bike into a more 'central and ahead' position at the junction - although this depends on the gradient and how fast I think I can get away. I do it partly because I feel that further movement after everyone's stopped highlights the presence of a cyclist.

Everybody loses concentration sometimes, although for motorists it is less unlikely not to involve causing pain and damage to others. Well done for not ranting at him. With no damage to the machine, I think you did the right thing. Others on this thread might not.

I hope the above makes sense.

It does make sense, but not sure it completely applies to my incident.

As I have said, I was already at the junction waiting to turn left and then he pulled up to the right of me. I'm not sure how I could have got his attention really, unless I start tapping on the window of every driver who pulls up next to me.
 

Radchenister

Veteran
Location
Avon
Sounds like he just 'forgot' you were there - his mind probably wandered off; sadly, as others have said on here you're low down the food chain when on a bike and his brain hasn't clocked you as a threat or hazard, so you most likely merged with the inanimate objects in his mental map.

When riding motorcycles I always remember my instructor saying treat all other motorised road users as if they're out to get you; they might not be of course but they have the size advantage, so best be wary of them ... imagine you're back at the time when motor vehicles were invented ... people used to run for cover (we all know about the bloke out front with a flag). What's different these days is we now accept them in our proximity as normality, when in reality, they're just as dangerous as they were from the outset.

trevithickwagenpennyfarthinglong_zpsb0089f2c.jpg
 
It does make sense, but not sure it completely applies to my incident.

As I have said, I was already at the junction waiting to turn left and then he pulled up to the right of me. I'm not sure how I could have got his attention really, unless I start tapping on the window of every driver who pulls up next to me.

I quite understand, but the situation you outline in your OP and reiterate in the above-quoted post does not make eye contact any more challenging or unlikely than if you had filtered or arrived at the same time. I do not suggest you did anything wrong; I just say what I do. A glance across takes a second or so.

Much of the time I (as a cyclist) am the first to arrive at a junction where traffic has to stop. I can still make eye contact in almost every situation with the two lead motorists in a queue and I do not have any special powers. In fact I would rate myself as a not-terribly-good cyclist. We seem (as a race) to be aware when someone is looking at us, so eye contact is pretty easy to achieve.

I'm happy to be wrong on this. It works for me, which is not the same thing as being universally applicable.

I find it unusual that an experienced and thoughtful cyclist (which you clearly are) would not endeavour at all junctions and crossing points to make some sort of eye contact with all other road users whose trajectory may in some way meld with their own in a potentially kinetic way.

You really don't have to tap on the window (which would anyway be a bit creepy and Magnetronish). Just a nice, smiley glance will elicit a peep back. His (or her) peep back is your life saver.
 

Linford

Guest
Read my OP again. I didn't filter up his inside.

I was ahead of him, in position to turn left. He came alongside me, and then turned across me to also turn left.

I realise that you didn't filter, and he pulled up along side you before cutting across his path. The filtering was the only reason why he may not have seen you, and that would have been his mitigation, and not 'you weren't wearing high viz'....I'm on your side
 

davefb

Guru
you didn't have a gun to shoot him? maybe those yanks do have the right idea......

I think the only issue would be 'white van , assume he's going to do something utterly stupid' and certainly don't assume just because no one in there right mind would do what he would do, that he wouldn't do it...

as for reporting, if that'd been car<>car and caused physical injury, would it be notifiable to police? ( or worth a whiplash claim?)


he basically hasn't looked properly in the direction he's turning into, he can hit all sorts of road users doing this, so hopefully he's going to look more carefully in future ... and i guess be thankful it's just a shoulder injury :sad:.
 
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