All these fatalities

[J4CKO]

I sometimes dread looking on here, finding another two people killed whilst out on there bikes is very saddening, and also worrying, I have no desire to be dead just yet, plus I want my kids to start cycling more.

With all these terrible accidents, are there any stats collected to try and find out how and why it happened, I am sure the Police do a thorough job collecting evidence but do the contributory factors get published, I was thinking that we all go round doing our best to be safe but could do with actual data and guidelines of what causes these terrible incidents, down even to the equipment being used, lights, clothing, actual location, time of day and details of the individual, anonymous of course. Also, it needs to be honest, just because someone has died doesnt mean they werent doign something wrong.

I might get a flaming for this as it may sound insensitive or obtrusive, that isnt the intention and neither do I want to pigeonhole victims into groups and assume it wont happen to me but I want to know if there is anything I am doing wrong or could do better ? A lot of cycling is obvious and common sense but I do wonder whether there are more subtle things that could be drawn, Cyclecraft is great but I am not sure its everything you need to know.

Hope you see what I am getting at here, not trying to be ghoulish or anything.

 

[Panter]

Interesting post, and the point you're getting at is very clear, it's not insensetive at all.

I think it's important though to get things in perspective. Obviously, being a cycling forum you get to hear of pretty much every incident nationwide.

I don't know how many people are run over walking across the road every day but I bet the figures are shockingly high?

 

[Twanger]

Shazam!!!

So to speak...

http://londonroadsafety.tfl.gov.uk/data-research_publications-arc.php

 

[rh100]

I find it interesting too. As a newcomer to the road on two wheels, I've been lurking and hoovering up advice from here to get a sense of the added dangers I'll be facing.

You make a good point about cycle craft, I don't yet have a copy but intend to get one, but I imagine that like the highway code it can only give you an idea how things 'should' work. As in a car, only experience helps you out when you do get in the sticky stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong as I havn't read it yet.

Also, as there are plenty of visitors/lurkers to this forum, many of whom I'm sure would be newbies looking in to starting commuting, how about some of the more experienced riders making a sticky thread for the commuting forum, maybe listing in bullet point the danger signs to look out for on the road, and what to avoid and common mistakes etc? or if no one is willing to do that and it may not be practical, maybe linking to any relevent web sites for more info?

 

[Panter]

So, just on a very brief flick through the link above (thank you)

​

Of these, 216 were fatally injured

So, that's 0.6 FATALTIES per DAY, just in greater London
With over 28,000 incidents, it just shows how safe cycling is.

Ok, it doesn't account for miles/incident or anything but even so.....

 

[garrilla]

With all these terrible accidents, are there any stats collected to try and find out how and why it happened, I am sure the Police do a thorough job collecting evidence but do the contributory factors get published, I was thinking that we all go round doing our best to be safe but could do with actual data and guidelines of what causes these terrible incidents, down even to the equipment being used, lights, clothing, actual location, time of day and details of the individual, anonymous of course. Also, it needs to be honest, just because someone has died doesnt mean they werent doign something wrong.

I'm not an expert, so I might get corrected, but from what I know the police collect some of this information but it rarely gets collated into stats. However, the police have a growing interest in 'geo-spatial' analytics as part of the 'intelligence-led policing' and this is likely to lead to better understanding of the chracteristics of accidents by place and time just as they are now starting understand how crime clusters in the same way.

I do a lot of spatial analytics in my work and we encounter more and more police officers (and civilian statff) at industry events and they are now are regularly quoted in best practice litrature. So they are really getting into this type of research.

As this field grows I'm sure we'll start to see more 'evidence' of contributory factors and hopefully some useful solutions as a results.

 

[Crankarm]

I had three very close passes coming home this evening, well close for me. The reason was because the wind was back today and I was going into it so couldn't hear cars approaching on one busy stretch. I had to concentrate on other vehicles approaching and attempting to emerge from junctions. One of them a white fiat punto I managed to put in a rearward look just as he was squeezing by so shouted something at him. The other two were a Mondeo private hire taxi with the driver on the phone and the first a bogey slime green coloured Volvo saloon that turned left about 20 feet in front of me without any indication .

Normally this doesn't happen as I can hear them and turn to eye ball them but on these occasions they took me totally by surprise. I dread to think how many close passes and near death experiences muppets wearing hedphones and listening to music have .

 

[BentMikey]

Surely you need to look back more often? Shouldn't be relying on hearing to discover overtaking cars.

 

[Crankarm]

Surely you need to look back more often? Shouldn't be relying on hearing to discover overtaking cars.

Hahaaa...... you a comedian?

Do you frquently look behind on your cart?

 

[BentMikey]

No, I was being absolutely serious. This is CTUK instructor training advice.

What do you mean by cart? I don't have a cart, although I look behind every few seconds when riding my bike.

 

[mattybain]

Normally this doesn't happen as I can hear them and turn to eye ball them but on these occasions they took me totally by surprise. I dread to think how many close passes and near death experiences muppets wearing hedphones and listening to music have .

Hardly any because

1) My music is so low I can still hear cars
2) I frequently look behind, especially when moving out from my position
3) I try and take an early primary to avoid having to move out suddenly

And what are you going to do when silent electric cars are more prevalent? the first pedestrian deaths have already been accounted to the fact the pedestrian didn't hear the car and stepped out.

 

[Paul Narramore]

I think the answer is far simpler than many would imagine. In addition the fear of accidents (and fatalities) is far, far greater than the reality. As a former Advanced Police Driver I know that almost all crashes are as a result of failing to concentrate and not 'reading the road'. Timidity also comes into it. In twenty years of service, always out on the road, I went to very very few crashes (we gave up calling them 'accidents a few years ago) involving bikes although I do remember two fatals. One was at night. A young cyclist properly dressed and with good lights was riding home along an unlit country lane having finished work at the local paper mill at 10pm. At the same time a middle aged man was driving up the same lane also having left the same workplace at the same time. Now whether he was blinded by oncoming vehicles we don't know but he collided with the back of the cyclist who had no chance. The driver drove a further 1/2 mile with the remains of one of the bike wheels wrapped around his suspension before suffering from a heart attack. A very sad case.

Another incident involved a cyclist riding up a (painted on) cycle lane alongside a fast dual carriageway. With traffic speeding along at over 70mph inches from his right shoulder, it was a gamble which failed to come off.

There is a tremendous lack of awareness and a lack of concentration on the part of ALL road users - drivers, motorcyclists, riders and pedestrians. Drivers seem to like to chat to their passengers as well as looking at them. They like to waive their hands around when talking. Motorcyclists often ride far too fast for the road conditions. Cyclists often blatently ignore traffic lights and weave between cars. Pedestrians are often in a world of their own. My wife moans at me for regularly pointing out bad driving and it's because she also talks too much/looks at her passenger/waives her hands about whilst driving. She thinks that's normal. Me? I concentrate. I don't speak much, my hands are on the wheel, I mirror check every few seconds. Driving (and riding) can be a dangerous time so we must all concentrate more. And expect the unexpected.

 

[BentMikey]

IMO the muppets are those not looking back to interact with car drivers, not necessarily those wearing headphones. I'll admit that the two often go together though.

Car drivers hate it when we don't look back, and even more so when we don't look back before manouvering. It's so important to establish that sense of communication, to negotiate and to appear to be more human than a lycra lout. Look back, and often drivers will leave you more space and or back off a little more than they otherwise would.

 

[summerdays]

It's so important to establish that sense of communication, to negotiate and to appear to be more human than a lycra lout. Look back, and often drivers will leave you more space and or back off a little more than they otherwise would.

I agree totally - that's why I hate full face helmets on the road - I think they remove a method of communication and make you appear less human. Sometimes I've looked behind in preparation for moving right ... only to find that the driver then hangs back anticipating the move, even though it was perhaps slightly earlier than I intended.

 

[summerdays]

As for the stats I know the council collects figures which it publishes and I think they also try to collect more information too but I don't think that is published.