Are the EU being Shellfish?

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monkers

Über Member
It's a bit rude of you to imply my views are 'fantasy or hearsay' especially given your comments on other threads.

I've already said I have no intention of laying them out for you, so it would appear that you're looking for an opportunity to claim some sort of victory, in a battle only you are having. Fair play, you've won, and don't let it worry you that as you're competing with yourself, you've lost at the same time.

It seems that the things I've mentioned are new to you, which suggests that you didn't consider all of the facts when making your decision.
Actually you have stated quite clearly that you believe I have opinions not based on facts. You can challenge any of my points as you wish, and I'll be most happy to show you the evidence (sincerely).

I'm not looking for a victory - perhaps some concession that Brexit was achieved because an unknown number of Brexiters voted either not being aware of the consequences for NI, or otherwise being aware and voting for Brexit anyway.

My problem with your own posts is that you are not just denying, but blaming remain voters - I wish to rebut those claims and show them to be as ridiculous as they are. Had you not made these false claims, I wouldn't have engaged with you.
 
Actually you have stated quite clearly that you believe I have opinions not based on facts. You can challenge any of my points as you wish, and I'll be most happy to show you the evidence (sincerely).

I'm not looking for a victory - perhaps some concession that Brexit was achieved because an unknown number of Brexiters voted either not being aware of the consequences for NI, or otherwise being aware and voting for Brexit anyway.

My problem with your own posts is that you are not just denying, but blaming remain voters - I wish to rebut those claims and show them to be as ridiculous as they are. Had you not made these false claims, I wouldn't have engaged with you.
You're again doing that twisting words thing that you claim to dislike.

I said it appears that you didn't have all the facts.

I'm not denying, and I'm not blaming remain voters, I'm saying that aspects of events initiated by remain voters added to the problem.

It's one thing claiming 'facts' but quite another when you bastardise them like that. It makes your argument look weaker.
 

monkers

Über Member
You're again doing that twisting words thing that you claim to dislike.

I said it appears that you didn't have all the facts.

I'm not denying, and I'm not blaming remain voters, I'm saying that aspects of events initiated by remain voters added to the problem.

It's one thing claiming 'facts' but quite another when you bastardise them like that. It makes your argument look weaker.
You'll either need to show me those facts that you have that I don't, or otherwise you're going to need to consider sitting down.

The British-Irish Agreement and the Belfast Agreement have been compromised. An unworkable 'solution' has been put in place, the people of NI feel let down, are becoming resentful, and criminals are making the most of their opportunities.

This was caused by the result of a referendum that was not legal in its foundation, poorly managed and subject to corruption. A referendum in which you voted to leave.

If that's not bad enough, you are saying that the EU and remainers like me are the cause, because we don't have a solution to the problem that Brexiters helped to cause.

What are the facts that I'm missing? Let's see them.
 
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You'll either need to show me those facts that you have that I don't, or otherwise you're going to need to consider sitting down.

The British-Irish Agreement and the Belfast Agreement have been compromised. An workable 'solution' has been put in place, the people of NI feel let down, are becoming resentful, and criminals are making the most of their opportunities.

This was caused by the result of a referendum that was not legal in its foundation, poorly managed and subject to corruption. A referendum in which you voted to leave.

If that's not bad enough, you are saying that the EU and remainers like me are the cause, because we don't have a solution to the problem that Brexiters helped to cause.

What are the facts that I'm missing? Let's see them.
Aaand you still try to twist the words to try to misrepresent what I posted. That's not a good example of how you should deal with facts. :rolleyes:

You can demand people 'sit down' or give you the facts you haven't bothered looking for yourself as much as you like, I'm totally unconcerned by such demands.

You are stuck on your view, and clearly won't look for facts that cast doubt on your 'assured' position.

As I suggested, rather than trying to preach and convert on here, which you don't seem to be being very effective at, why not get in touch with the people that are in a position to resolve this dilemma of yours, and offer your considered opinion on the solution (which you have yet to post on here) and let posters know how it was received. :okay:
 

FishFright

More wheels than sense
Aaand you still try to twist the words to try to misrepresent what I posted. That's not a good example of how you should deal with facts. :rolleyes:

You can demand people 'sit down' or give you the facts you haven't bothered looking for yourself as much as you like, I'm totally unconcerned by such demands.

You are stuck on your view, and clearly won't look for facts that cast doubt on your 'assured' position.

As I suggested, rather than trying to preach and convert on here, which you don't seem to be being very effective at, why not get in touch with the people that are in a position to resolve this dilemma of yours, and offer your considered opinion on the solution (which you have yet to post on here) and let posters know how it was received. :okay:
Go on give him some facts , you must have hundreds to be so convinced about brexit.....
 

monkers

Über Member
You can demand people 'sit down' or give you the facts you haven't bothered looking for yourself as much as you like, I'm totally unconcerned by such demands.

You are stuck on your view, and clearly won't look for facts that cast doubt on your 'assured' position.

As I suggested, rather than trying to preach and convert on here, which you don't seem to be being very effective at, why not get in touch with the people that are in a position to resolve this dilemma of yours, and offer your considered opinion on the solution (which you have yet to post on here) and let posters know how it was received. :okay:
If I was in the position of responsibility for the mess, then I would have a dilemma. However I'm not - I don't own the problem. I've put in the work, done the reading and thought long and hard. I've done the campaigning to raise awareness before the referendum and some since, but I come up against the same brick walls as I have with you.

You said I was 'entitled to my opinions but not my own facts'. That is a fair enough stance. I've invited you to correct me, but you refuse for no apparent reason. I'm reluctant to make assumptions, but what am I to think?
 
If I was in the position of responsibility for the mess, then I would have a dilemma. However I'm not - I don't own the problem. I've put in the work, done the reading and thought long and hard. I've done the campaigning to raise awareness before the referendum and some since, but I come up against the same brick walls as I have with you.

You said I was 'entitled to my opinions but not my own facts'. That is a fair enough stance. I've invited you to correct me, but you refuse for no apparent reason. I'm reluctant to make assumptions, but what am I to think?
If you meet the same brick walls, perhaps you could consider re-framing your approach. I imagine others find it rude when you try to rephrase what they've said so it better fits your agenda, no matter what the facts show.

I've pointed out several times where you have misused facts. The ones where you rewrite what I put seem to be examples of your approach to facts.

Given you failed with the campaign, and the deed is done, it's not altogether clear what the purpose of your posts are.
 
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Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke UK
Yet there is nothing stopping you communicating and having a conversation with people living over there, but it's far easier to just be rude, and accuse others of lying. It avoids all the risk of hearing views that don't match the preconceptions. :okay:
I have not accused anybody of lying.

The rest of your post is sui generis with everything you've added here and in other threads; it adds no value to the discussion as it simply seeks to deflect.
 

monkers

Über Member
If you meet the same brick walls, perhaps you could consider re-framing your approach. I imagine others find it rude when you try to rephrase what they've said so it better fits your agenda, no matter what the facts show.

I've pointed out several times where you have misused facts. The ones where you rewrite what I put seem to be examples of your approach to facts.
And I managed to miss them all - silly me. Ok rather than supplying the missing facts, why not start by showing where my facts are wrong. Am I wrong about the British-Irish Agreement? Or the Belfast Agreement? Or was it the 1998 referenda results in RofI and NI? Or the 2016 referendum result in NI?
 
I have not accused anybody of lying.

The rest of your post is sui generis with everything you've added here and in other threads; it adds no value to the discussion as it simply seeks to deflect.
If you mean 'deflect' from the stuff pushed as fact, that doesn't consider all of the facts, then perhaps you have a point, although given your own post isn't contributing to the topic, I'm not sure it's worth much.
 
And I managed to miss them all - silly me. Ok rather than supplying the missing facts, why not start by showing where my facts are wrong. Am I wrong about the British-Irish Agreement? Or the Belfast Agreement? Or was it the 1998 referenda results in RofI and NI? Or the 2016 referendum result in NI?
And round and round it goes. You seem to only be able to view the situation from your own preconceived perspective, and have brushed over the fact that people there view it in many different ways to you.
 
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