Are the EU being Shellfish?

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SkipdiverJohn

Veteran
Location
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The solution is simple. Rejoin the customs union, the single market and eventually the EU.
Dream on. Current polling suggests the support for rejoining the EU is only just over 30%, roughly the same level of support Jeremy Corbyn enjoyed at the last General Election.
The reality is we're out, we're staying out, and we won't ever be going back in.
No-one except the Lib Dems in England and the SNP in Scotland is going to be dumb enough to fight an election with a rejoin the EU manifesto pledge.
Some aspects of the Brexit Deal aren't great, but most Brexiteers aren't moaning because we got the main thing we wanted, to get out of the EU.
The sectors that have had some adverse result from the deal will have to learn to live with it, unless the deal was to break down completely in future for some reason. They essentially have two choices; whinge or try to find new markets for their products.
I'm not in the slightest bit surprised at all the EU's silly games with things like shellfish. They're a nasty shower of shite and this predictable petty bureaucratic awkwardness is just about par for the course. No Brexiteer I know is at all surprised by the EU's attitude - it's this sort of thing that galvanised us into voting leave in the first place. Rather than take the bait we need to just cut the EU out of as much of our trade as possible and actively become both more self-sufficient and less european focussed. Why get embroiled in a punch up with them, when we should just step back, say f*** you lot, we're going to concentrate on the rest of the world that isn't part of the EU.
Let them fester in their own coronavirus infested cesspit. We're well out of it.
 

Rezillo

TwoSheds
Location
Suffolk
I'm not in the slightest bit surprised at all the EU's silly games with things like shellfish. They're a nasty shower of shite and this predictable petty bureaucratic awkwardness is just about par for the course.
For anyone involved in food regulation, the post Brexit problems were entirely predictable, along with all the certification issues for meat and dairy products. We used these 'silly games' to exclude non-EU competitors when we were members so it is hardly surprising to have the roles reversed after Brexit.

I didn't expect this to happen, though. It's legal issues like these that were assumed to be resolved by the Brexit agreement, but thanks to our very own home-grown nasty shower of politicians, the UK utterly failed to deal with them. Sheer incompetence on the government's part - I can only assume that any civil servants with at least some expertise in the field had joined the flight of their colleagues out of the service (my contacts in central government have all long gone) or they simply had no input into the process.
 

Rocky

sacré bleu
For anyone involved in food regulation, the post Brexit problems were entirely predictable, along with all the certification issues for meat and dairy products. We used these 'silly games' to exclude non-EU competitors when we were members so it is hardly surprising to have the roles reversed after Brexit.

I didn't expect this to happen, though. It's legal issues like these that were assumed to be resolved by the Brexit agreement, but thanks to our very own home-grown nasty shower of politicians, the UK utterly failed to deal with them. Sheer incompetence on the government's part - I can only assume that any civil servants with at least some expertise in the field had joined the flight of their colleagues out of the service (my contacts in central government have all long gone) or they simply had no input into the process.
Also don't forget the Norway fishing debacle is solely down to the incompetence of our negotiators. It's nothing to do with the EU.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Veteran
Location
London
Currently two thousand souls a day are losing their lives to COVID in the EU. Starved of oxygen and unable to even be with their loved ones.

I'm sure you're not this unpleasant in real life. Why do it here?
The vaccine shambles is a shitshow entirely of the EU's own making. I feel sorry for the individuals that have suffered, but the blame lies fairly and squarely at the door of the bungling clowns running the EU.
They could have pulled their fingers out months ago and got the ball rolling, but they chose to piss about playing their predictable silly bureaucratic games where everything needs to be endlessly passed around and rubber stamped by loads of different pen-pushers. Generating red tape for the sake of it is the only thing the EU is actually any good at, when it comes to being flexible and having a "get the job done" attitude they are utterly incompetent. Von Der Leyen and that other idiot Comissioner who have been doing all the posturing and demanding and trying to do a hatchet job on AZ's reputation, rather than dealing with the pandemic, I hold personally responsible for all the extra avoidable deaths. They don't give a shoot, they get preferential vaccine access anyway whilst the plebs can suffer with the virus. So long as they can score some points against AZ and the Brits, and divert the attention away from their own complete incompetence, it's fine by them. VDL was widely considered incompetent when in the German government, and only got the EU job because of the usual EU backroom fixing.
 
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stowie

Legendary Member
Rather than take the bait we need to just cut the EU out of as much of our trade as possible and actively become both more self-sufficient and less european focussed. Why get embroiled in a punch up with them, when we should just step back, say f*** you lot, we're going to concentrate on the rest of the world that isn't part of the EU.
That, of course being rather easier said than done.

In terms of markets for goods imports there are three "big beasts" - in order, the US, the EU and China. To give you an idea of the scale, each of these account for around $2.0t - $2.4t per year markets. The next biggest (excluding Germany) after these three is Japan at $0.6t

Out of these three, I would argue that the EU is the least protectionist and is certainly the closest to us.

I know that much hope was pinned on a "bigly" trade deal with the US, but - under any President - the US would extract a heavy price for a good trade deal. The US actually has very few trade arrangements with large economies. NAFTA is the exception. Outside this, most are with small countries who either are prepared to have a very open market for US imports (Israel, Singapore) or have a specific export where it is in the US interest to have an arrangement (eg. Chile) or are small countries within the sphere of the US (such as some in S. or C. America). No trade deal with Japan. No trade deal with Mercosur. No trade deal with the EU. No trade deal with India. I could go on.. There is a reason for this, and the reason should be fairly obvious.

China is pretty much a no-no with FTA for a myriad of reasons ranging from highly protectionist economy to security concerns to international human rights violations.

So, we stick two metaphorical fingers up at the EU. Where to after that?

No-one except the Lib Dems in England and the SNP in Scotland is going to be dumb enough to fight an election with a rejoin the EU manifesto pledge.
The SNP aren't being dumb by fighting the election with a rejoin manifesto. They are being smart by playing to a majority in Scotland who didn't vote for Brexit whilst helping drive home the narrative that the changes are being imposed by the English. With the end goal of independence. Which might end up being the most lasting and consequential result of Brexit.

Also don't forget the Norway fishing debacle is solely down to the incompetence of our negotiators. It's nothing to do with the EU.
Yep. This was the sort of country by country negotiation we are supposed to be much better at now we are out of the EU. Turns out this is really tough as well. Who knew?!
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
That, of course being rather easier said than done.

In terms of markets for goods imports there are three "big beasts" - in order, the US, the EU and China. To give you an idea of the scale, each of these account for around $2.0t - $2.4t per year markets. The next biggest (excluding Germany) after these three is Japan at $0.6t

Out of these three, I would argue that the EU is the least protectionist and is certainly the closest to us.

I know that much hope was pinned on a "bigly" trade deal with the US, but - under any President - the US would extract a heavy price for a good trade deal. The US actually has very few trade arrangements with large economies. NAFTA is the exception. Outside this, most are with small countries who either are prepared to have a very open market for US imports (Israel, Singapore) or have a specific export where it is in the US interest to have an arrangement (eg. Chile) or are small countries within the sphere of the US (such as some in S. or C. America). No trade deal with Japan. No trade deal with Mercosur. No trade deal with the EU. No trade deal with India. I could go on.. There is a reason for this, and the reason should be fairly obvious.

China is pretty much a no-no with FTA for a myriad of reasons ranging from highly protectionist economy to security concerns to international human rights violations.

So, we stick two metaphorical fingers up at the EU. Where to after that?



The SNP aren't being dumb by fighting the election with a rejoin manifesto. They are being smart by playing to a majority in Scotland who didn't vote for Brexit whilst helping drive home the narrative that the changes are being imposed by the English. With the end goal of independence. Which might end up being the most lasting and consequential result of Brexit.



Yep. This was the sort of country by country negotiation we are supposed to be much better at now we are out of the EU. Turns out this is really tough as well. Who knew?!
Excellent post.
It's the rather obvious question to the suggestion that we'll make much better trade deals outside the EU.
Who, that's worth dealing with, didn't we already have an excellent trade deal with?
Throwing all that in the bin, in the belief that the rest of the world would roll over for us, it's brexit in a nutshell.

The idea that the American negotiators would be all cuddly compared to the EU is laughable.
 
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Honestly, I shudder each time I read this kind of hatred, and I can't disassociate these words from the Brexiteer attitude that has become so prevalent. I'm English and when I read this kind of hatred, I feel embarrassed to be English.

This is an international site and people all around the globe are seeing this level of hatred towards others - I don't wish them to think we are all like this, because we are not, so I'm speaking out. I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone thinking that this attitude absolutely stinks.
Well said. I feel the same when people here ask me about what is happening. I've never had anyone show this attitude towards me here throughought the whole Brexit mess and our citizenship applications, in contrast to hat I've heard from EU citizens in the UK.
 
There are people you could level that criticism at in this forum, but my own experience of @monkers is that she's very quick to point out hatred wherever it comes from, so I think you're aiming at the wrong target there.
And yet, there are many abusive and insulting posts that go unmentioned. :okay:
 

SkipdiverJohn

Veteran
Location
London
You mean you are pleased that the UK exported the Kent variant and it's been tearing across the continent?

The EU has been exporting vaccine to the UK, the UK has exported none. If the tables were turned, and you ran the EU would you be saying 'fark them, let them fester in their own coronavirus infested cesspit'?
Variant names mean nothing apart from where they were identified. They could have mutated at a location anywhere on the planet. The EU are a bunch of arrogant complacent career bureaucrats who have been caught with their pants down.
They're furiously trying to divert attention from this and play silly buggers.


If I ran the EU I would have sacked half of them by now and told the rest who I hadn't sacked to stop pissing about passing endless bits of paper around 27 times over to make themselves look busy and actually get something done ASAP. That would mean short-circuiting all the normal mindless nonsense that the EU runs on, and simply saying "get the vaccines out there without all the stupid procedures" JFDI, and do it now!!!
Remind me, how many pieces of paper does someone have to read and sign in say Germany before they can have their vaccine? There's none of this box ticking bollocks in the UK, if you want a jab and don't have some adverse medical problem, they give you a jab and that's all there is to it. It's a shitshow because shitshows are the only thing the EU know how to construct.
 
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The solution is simple. Rejoin the customs union, the single market and eventually the EU.
Dream on. Current polling suggests the support for rejoining the EU is only just over 30%, roughly the same level of support Jeremy Corbyn enjoyed at the last General Election.
The reality is we're out, we're staying out, and we won't ever be going back in.
Which is perfectly reasonable if correct, "democratic will of the people" and all that, but, and I think this is where the problem lies, that means that the UK doesn't get the benefits of being a part of the customs union and single market. That's a consequence of the "democratic" decision that Brexit supporters tell us was made (we'll ignore for now the point that no-one in the Brexit leadership actually supported leaving the SM and CU before the vote, so in fact, no-one really voted for that anyway...).

The EU is under no obligation to bend its own rules to protect the UK from the consequences of its decision, in fact it is obliged to protect that single market and customs union, and that means the laws the UK helped to pass will now apply to the UK.

By all means support Brexit, but then you accept the consequences of your actions.
 
Variant names mean nothing apart from where they were identified. They could have mutated at a location anywhere on the planet. The EU are a bunch of arrogant complacent career bureaucrats who have been caught with their pants down.
They're furiously trying to divert attention from this and play silly buggers.


If I ran the EU I would have sacked half of them by now and told the rest who I hadn't sacked to stop pissing about passing endless bits of paper around 27 times over to make themselves look busy and actually get something done ASAP. That would mean short-circuiting all the normal mindless nonsense that the EU runs on, and simply saying "get the vaccines out there without all the stupid procedures" JFDI, and do it now!!!
Remind me, how many pieces of paper does someone have to read and sign in say Germany before they can have their vaccine? There's none of this box ticking bollocks in the UK, if you want a jab and don't have some adverse medical problem, they give you a jab and that's all there is to it. It's a shitshow because shitshows are the only thing the EU know how to construct.
Really, your rants are bizarre.

Germany is currently vaccinating as many per capita as the UK

https://ourworldindata.org/explorer...utbreaks=false&country=GBR~European+Union~DEU

And the cautions on vaccinating are actually country rather than EU driven; the EMA has been uniformly positive about the vaccines.

For a non EU example, take Norway, who've taken an ultra cautious approach to vaccination. Isv that caused by the EU? They have almost the best COVID record in Europe.
 
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