Are the EU being Shellfish?

HMS_Dave

Pillock
Location
Midlands
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shep

Veteran
Location
Wolverhampton
it's the leavers that are whining. It makes no odds what was put in front of them, they whinge about it, nothing would ever be enough. Pleasure in misery indeed.
You can speak for all the leave voters in the country then can you?

no-one I know who voted leave has moaned once, and I know plenty.

Remainers, on here at least, seem to talk about how bad Brexit is and endlessly point out what a bad decision it was and how 'we' all got stitched up, sold a dummy etc and some have even, dare I say it 'moaned' about it.


I'm sure plenty have cocked up and these are the stories we read in the media and if they have voted for something that has affected them then they made a poor decision, I don't think I did.
 
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Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
no-one I know who voted leave has moaned once, and I know plenty.
George Eustice is moaning. He is from a family of Cornish farmers so must have known the consequences.
He helped frame the Brexit deal for agriculture and fisheries but he’s still moaning about it not being good enough.
 

shep

Veteran
Location
Wolverhampton
George Eustice is moaning. He is from a family of Cornish farmers so must have known the consequences.
He helped frame the Brexit deal for agriculture and fisheries but he’s still moaning about it not being good enough.
I don't know George Eustice.
 

vickster

Legendary Member
YABT
 
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But I suspect he knows more about the ins and outs of Brexit than you or I, and he’s unhappy with the deal he helped to broker.
I, on the other hand, suspect he cares not a jot about the deal one way or the other, but has learned a lot about the political usefulness of blaming a foreign entity for problems caused at home.
 

stowie

Legendary Member
2026 is when the UK can get full control of its seas again.
Sort of. 2026 will see annual negotiations. Where EU leverage will be UK access to EU waters (reciprocation) and tariffs / taxation on UK imports to the EU.

I find it highly unlikely that the fishermen would be best served if they lose EU fishing ground access whilst also becoming completely noncompetitive in the EU fish market. So deals will be struck. Which in theory allows the UK full control but in practice will significantly limit scope due to the above leverage. Hell, those negotiations could possibly see UK needing to ceed more fishing quota to the EU in UK waters to maintain the current tariff free access!

Of course the nice neighbours have threatened to stop selling the UK electricity if the UK doesn't let them continue to take its fish for free! :laugh:

Great bunch they are.
I am not sure if anyone really was saying we should stay in the EU because they are really, really nice. They are a huge trading area with world clout that only a couple of countries also enjoy. They are going to be difficult and demanding to deal with because they have a lot of leverage. Third nation states said as much to the UK after the referendum.

On the flip side, if the UK was member of a club with huge influence but refused to leverage it because it wouldn't be nice, then - as a member state - we might quite rightly start asking why we belonged to it.

There is no public health rationale, it is protectionism pure and simple. Which the EU is perfectly entitled to engage in. And I am perfectly entitled to criticise. For me at least it is not an unexpected consequence, the EU is an unpleasant protectionist construct, and that's why I wanted out.
OK. So here would be the EU health rationale (in my opinion). Those member states enjoying the free access to the EU market accept EU regulation and ECJ jurisdiction. We would be asking the EU for the benefits with none of the EU safeguards that ensure level playing field and common enforcement / dispute mechansism. Of course, a bespoke solution could be set up with the UK so that ECJ jurisdiction doesn't extend directly but by proxy we move in lock-step. But that is complicated and takes time which the UK and EU didn't have.

Of course, at least to some extent, you are right. The EU is also protectionist. It is highly protectionist in maintaining food and agricultural standards for good reason - to safeguard the health of the citizens of its member states. And then quite probably protectionist for other reasons as well. But you won't find the other big players in world trade acting any differently and usually worse. The EU is a deal making machine compared with their nearest similar entities in terms of size.
 
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OP
icowden

icowden

Über Member
Location
Surrey
Of course, at least to some extent, you are right. The EU is also protectionist. It is highly protectionist in maintaining food and agricultural standards for good reason - to safeguard the health of the citizens of its member states. And then quite probably protectionist for other reasons as well. But you won't find the other big players in world trade acting any differently and usually worse. The EU is a deal making machine compared with their nearest similar entities in terms of size.
What's even more laughable is that the UK Government won't join the European Free Market Trade Area cos Brexit, but will apply to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans=Pacific Partnership (CPTPP). Why laughable? Because:-

The rights and obligations under the CPTPP fall into two categories:
  • Rules: for example, on how countries should make new food safety regulations or whether they can ban the transfer of data to other CPTPP members. These are the same for all CPTPP parties (including any new members that may join).
  • Market access: how far each CPTPP member will cut its tariffs, open up its services markets, liberalise visa conditions for business travellers, and so on. Each member has its own schedules of commitments. In some cases the commitments are offered to all other members, while in others they are restricted to specific negotiating partners.
So in other words an arrangement exactly the same as the EU. So EU = BAD because BREXIT.
 
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