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Blatant fibs from the cops.

Discussion in 'Commuting' started by spindrift, 16 Jun 2008.

  1. spindrift

    spindrift New Member

    At the City Cycling Forum/ meeting a few months ago, the City police insisted their enforcement covered all modes of transport (except pedestrians of course), and that NO car drivers had jumped lights at the Cheapside junction over the 5 days, but that 231 cyclists had - (90% of them male if anyone is interested).

    from Hackney cycling emails. Blatantly untrue.
     
  2. PBancroft

    PBancroft Senior Member

    Location:
    Winchester
    I guess it depends what their definition of "jumped" is. If they turn a blind eye to people who pass through lights that change at the last moment (and yes, I know that should still count... I'm just speculating devil's advocate stylee) then they might be correct.

    I rarely see car drivers jump a light which has been red for a while - whereas I've seen cyclists do this quite regularly. They'll check to see if its physically clear, and then go - drivers don't do this on the whole.
     
  3. spindrift

    spindrift New Member

    I simply don't believe that not one car ran the light over 5 days.
     
  4. PBancroft

    PBancroft Senior Member

    Location:
    Winchester
    So ask them for further details. Ask them what the parameters were and how the statistics were taken.
     
  5. domtyler

    domtyler Über Member

    Oh the injustice! :smile: :biggrin:
     
  6. PBancroft

    PBancroft Senior Member

    Location:
    Winchester
    There is always the possibility that they might be right.
     
  7. zimzum42

    zimzum42 Legendary Member

    I see plenty of drivers go through amber and go through when the light has literally just turned red, but I hardly ever see a car blatantly go through a red. I'd be inclined to believe them.
     
  8. Regulator

    Regulator Egregious Professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography

    There are police officers at the junction outside our offices at the moment(junction of High Holborn and Chancery Lane) stopping cyclists who are jumping red lights.

    I was outside, having a fag and watching them at their work. They were pulling over the cyclists but, as I watched, two black cabs jumped red lights - and the officers ignored them.

    I pointed their oversight out to them - and was less than politely told to go away. I have got their numbers and will be raising some concerns with the Professional Standards Directorate.

    I don't have a problem with RLJing cyclists being done - but evenhandedness is necessary.
     
  9. yello

    yello Guru

    Inclined to agree with that.

    I guess it's due to a definition difference - 'jumping red' as opposed to 'running red'.
     
  10. zimzum42

    zimzum42 Legendary Member

    Were the cabs 'running the light' or were they just rolling through in the middle of the red sequence?
     
  11. spindrift

    spindrift New Member

    aNYONE WANT TO STAND AT TYHE SAME JUNCTION AND GIMME A FIVER FOR EVERY CAR THAT JUMPS THE REDS?

    tHOUGHT NOT.

    A survey by the RAC found that, yes, a lot of cyclists run red lights. It also found that one in ten drivers in Manchester and London crossed traffic lights more than three seconds after the lights turned red, and one in five bus drivers ran red lights. There are ten thousand traffic light camera prosecutions annually in London alone, a small part of the 1.5 million prosecutions annually based on camera evidence (I don't know what proportion are speed versus red lights), in turn the tip of the iceberg of twelve million prosecutions and cautions for motoring offences by UK police forces in 2002.
     
  12. Regulator

    Regulator Egregious Professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography

    They were going through the red - not running through on amber. It is a regualr thing with black cabs and buses, particularly at this junction, as there is a a relatively long delay between red one and a green the other, as the phasing is out (and has been for ages).

    However, the worst junction I know for red light jumpers (again nearly always black cabs and buses) are the lights on the Trafalgar Square roundabout. You can guarantee that there will be an example of the light being jumped every time you use it.
     
  13. spindrift

    spindrift New Member

    However, the worst junction I know for red light jumpers (again nearly always black cabs and buses) are the lights on the Trafalgar Square roundabout.

    Any junction in The City has cars and lorries trundling through on red, but the most dangerous behaviour is the ped crossing south of ST Pauls, where drivers speed up to approach a red light!
     
  14. yello

    yello Guru

    There you have a measurable definition of running/jumping red. That's something missing from the Hackney report. Perhaps they used a broader time scale or something.

    I don't think anyone would dispute that there are vehicles that cross the line when the light is red, but clearly some surveys have a more lenient interpretation.
     
  15. yello

    yello Guru

    Yes, I've seen that plenty of times too. I always thought amber meant 'prepare to stop' not gun it.