Bob a Job

wafter

Über Member
Location
Oxford
Sounds like someone with an agenda has had a word in the ear of our overlords.. I guess a group representing private commercial landlords and retailers. On top of that yes, it's another excuse to rinse the public a bit more.

Sounds like absolute rubbish tbh - as much as I'm not a huge fan of mail-order (especially the enormous, tax-dodging multinational corporations involved) the arguments for implementing this seem flimsy at best - as Drago points out one van delivering 100+ items daily has to be more more energy efficient than 50+ vehicles each driving through congested city streets to buy two items per driver.

I'm pretty sure there will be whole host of levies and extra taxes to pay for this mess. Does anybody expect otherwise?
We'll pay for the money printing through inflation and currency devaluation and inflation; which is a lot easier to hide from the general public than a tax hike :sad:
 

MarkF

Legendary Member
Location
Yorkshire
How can an Amazon driver safely deliver 140 drops a day? That's a 18 deliveries per hour hour in an 8 hour shift, a delivery every 3 minutes? Not possible. So we can clearly see that the driver/partner/courier/associate is being royally shafted and will have to work far longer hours to achieve their delivery target, the knock affect on for them is that this will lead them to earning less than the minimum wage whilst simultaneously devaluing their own transport that they have lent "rent free" to Amazon. How many people die or are injured through the actions of these stressed out bods just trying to get by whilst having to achieve TWO impossible targets, the delivery target and the safe driving target, the latter designed to absolve Amazon of any responsibility for any accident. It's all bullshit.

I won't buy anything from them, I've run a business, dealt with courier drivers, they are stressed beyond belief, no matter how good the deal, I can't be complicit in this, a few £ is not worth it.
 
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slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
How can an Amazon driver safely deliver 140 drops a day? That's a 18 deliveries per hour hour in an 8 hour shift, a delivery every 3 minutes? Not possible. So we can clearly see that the driver/partner/courier/associate is being royally shafted and will have to work far longer hours to achieve their delivery target, the knock affect on for them is that this will lead them to earning less than the minimum wage whilst simultaneously devaluing their own transport that they have lent "rent free" to Amazon. How many people die or are injured through the actions of these stressed out bods just trying to get by whilst having to achieve TWO impossible targets, the delivery target and the safe driving target, the latter designed to absolve Amazon of any responsibility for any accident. It's all bullshit.

I won't buy anything from them, I've run a business, dealt with courier drivers, they are stressed beyond belief, no matter how good the deal, I can't be complicit in this, a few £ is not worth it.
Plenty of people thought that home deliveries were a truly excellent idea if it enabled them not to mingle and spread a rather nasty pandemic.
 

raleighnut

Guru
Location
On 3 Wheels
Maybe just maybe people will stop buying shoddy crap that ends up in landfill recycling in short order.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
I don't think a levy is a bad idea in all circumstances.

In the past the market for this type of deliveries has swung back and forth from expansion for free deliveries on small and low cost items which was insane and then largely came to an end (self regulation) to having minimums and chargeable delivery and concentrating on larger items and what could and couldn't be delivered. The last few years it's gone back the other way again with same day deliveries. During covid-19 and questionmarks about afterwards, interesting question. At other times it's led to unsustainable business models.

In my city and others congestion zones were due to come in before covid-19. These focussed on taxi and buses and NOx emissions. I know in my city they are aware that some NOx emissions in the city centre are the people who drive around the city centre on a regular basis but also delivery drivers.

How you transition to more responsible behaviours and clean air is a difficult one.

Van deliveries aren't automatically 'efficient'. It's just some people sometimes seeing what they want to see. On-line deliveries from the supermarket I used to go to had many inefficient deliveries that shouldn't have been on the road.
 

matticus

Senior Member
A tax on the housebound and disabled then?
Unfortunately, you could use that argument to stop all sorts of measures beneficial to the environment. Taxation is generally a very crude instrument to bring about behaviour change, but it's pretty much all we've got. Sorry :sad:

(I know very little about disabled support/benefits etc, but I believe that is the direction support should come from. It could be funded from pollution/vehicle taxations. Same with arguments about NHS workers paying more to drive to work at 2am - we should be paying them enough to get to work, or have an expenses scheme, or something; not making driving to work cheaper/easier for *everyone*.)
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Unfortunately, you could use that argument to stop all sorts of measures beneficial to the environment. Taxation is generally a very crude instrument to bring about behaviour change, but it's pretty much all we've got. Sorry :sad:
I'm not sure there's much thought in the comment.

It's a very common saying, I have friends and acquaintances that say the same. In many cases it just means 'someone is making my life more difficult' I'm going to lash out at whoever is listening/talking.

Another common one joey hasn't said is the saying that housebound/disabled people already pay a 'tax' by having delivery charges. The problems with discussing the matter are it's a diverse range of people, a subset of disabled people are highly mobile in vehicles and highly vocal about keeping the status quo whereas the ones that need help you don't tend to hear from. It also assumes all deliveries are the sorts of things you'd want to encourage under any circumstances - you don't. I'm sure joey will row back in a second to saying means essential items or some such.
 
No, I'm not going to row back on anything. This is a tax that will impact one section of the population more than others and for very arguable gains. One delivery van doing 5 deliveries, however inefficiently organised, is always going to be less polluting than 5 cars making 5 separate journeys. Even more so if the van is electric - a more feasible option for delivery companies than private individuals.

If this was a tax that disproportionately impacted any other section of society there would be more objections but the elderly, infirm and disabled are largely invisible and easily ignored.
 
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