Brexit, what genuine effects have people experienced?

Gunk

Veteran
Location
Oxford
Which were the biggest lies that lead to the current deal ?
Johnson said

British fishing 'will not be a bargaining chip'
 

the snail

Guru
Location
Chippenham
There are no remainers or leavers just the country moving forward with the agreed deal. People have a wide variety of views on the details of the new deal depending on which part is being discussed. The us against them mentality has done alot of damage to the UK like the US before it. The US is now moving on and repairing the damage it is time the UK did.
True, you can't be a 'remainer' given that we left last year, so I suppose I am now a 'rejoiner'. We must move forward by renegotiating the awful deal, look to rejoin a customs union, then the single market, and eventually the EU. We will probably need to wait a while for the leavers to come to their senses, or die off though.
 

Kajjal

Veteran
Location
Wheely World
True, you can't be a 'remainer' given that we left last year, so I suppose I am now a 'rejoiner'. We must move forward by renegotiating the awful deal, look to rejoin a customs union, then the single market, and eventually the EU. We will probably need to wait a while for the leavers to come to their senses, or die off though.
That is the key point the current deal is damaging UK competitiveness and makes it significantly harder to trade internationally. A country choosing a deal to specifically impose trade sanctions on its self is unusual.
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
Articles of the Vienna Convention that both the UK and the Republic of Ireland acceded to. Both are also acceded to later protocols including the ability to 'fast track' complaints against the other.

Under UK law the referendum result could never be overturned. The referendum was advisory in legal status. Their is no legal provision for overturning what is only advice or public opinion.

The referendum result could not be implemented without breaking international treaties. Article 50 provided the escape means from EU treaties, so that is not contentious. However the Belfast Agreement is a treaty binding in international law. This brings about two strands for complaint against the UK.

The terms of a key annex to the Belfast Agreement, namely the document known as the 'British-Irish Agreement' agrees that the UK and the Republic of Ireland remain partners in the EU, 'unless or until', to use the legal phrase, the people of Northern Ireland exercise their sovereign rights of self-determination in a free and fair referendum. The Belfast Agreement in its whole is a registered treaty and protected by the terms of the Vienna Convention - the Treaty on the Law of Treaties.

Secondly, before the Republic of Ireland were in a position to sign the Belfast Agreement, they were obliged by their own constitution to seek the permission of the public by way of a referendum. The referendum was held, the result being greater than 90% in favour. Accordingly the Republic of Ireland amended its constitution to take account of the referendum result.

A referendum was held in Northern Ireland before being put before UK parliament. On the basis of the two referendums, the treaty that is the Belfast Agreement was agreed and registered in international law.

The holding of the EU referendum was tantamount to a deliberate impediment on the constitution of another sovereign state.

Given that a major objection from brexiters was that the EU could 'impose' (to paraphrase Brexiters) law on a sovereign country was unacceptable, but have then cheered on the likes of Johnson and Farage in the deliberate breaching the terms of the constitution of the RofI. This is why, these people have been so very keen to say that the Irish needed telling three times before they voted the right way (that's another lie btw), but the subtext is that the Irish are so very thick that they don't know how to vote, so it's OK for us to trample all over their sovereignty and democracy.

Imagine the indignation of the UK should the situation have been reversed. There would have been talk of gunboats from all the rest of the usual ridiculous lightweight blowhards such as Marc Francois and co.
Wow, how come the finest legal brains in the whole of the world missed all this stuff? You missed your calling, you should have been leading on the Remain sides legal campaign, then you would simply pointed out all of this and none of this would have happened eh?

Or you have just cherry picked individual sentences and taken them out of context to suit your argument.

I can't quite decide which is it :whistle:
 
Wow, how come the finest legal brains in the whole of the world missed all this stuff? You missed your calling, you should have been leading on the Remain sides legal campaign, then you would simply pointed out all of this and none of this would have happened eh?

Or you have just cherry picked individual sentences and taken them out of context to suit your argument.

I can't quite decide which is it :whistle:
Or possibly, the UKgov knew this and decided they would do it anyway and assumed Ireland would let them get away with it. Again.
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
Why do people keep pointing out that 'X shop has run out of Y' thing?

It's like before we left the EU shops always had everything all of the time! We ran out of bog roll and pasta a year ago, and we were still in the EU.
 

monkers

I'm still watching you ...
Wow, how come the finest legal brains in the whole of the world missed all this stuff? You missed your calling, you should have been leading on the Remain sides legal campaign, then you would simply pointed out all of this and none of this would have happened eh?

Or you have just cherry picked individual sentences and taken them out of context to suit your argument.

I can't quite decide which is it :whistle:
That all sounds a bit snippy.

The words are all mine. Take the sentences one at a time and google them - you'll see for yourself.

UK lawyers were of course aware of the legal position, but if you'll please read again, you'll see that I said that only another member state can make a complaint against another member state of the UN. Based on what I have said, that leaves two possibilities, an offended party in Northern Ireland can take a case against the UK government in the High Court, which is in train as we speak; or the Republic of Ireland could make a complaint to the United Nations. As I said, the new government of Ireland could consider a complaint, but in Articles of the Vienna Convention there are clauses relating to time limits and extraordinary circumstance.

The point of my post was to show how brexiters crowed and continue to crow about sovereign rights of the UK without any apparent understanding of what that means, and how that works in international law. I also made a comment on how little they tend to respect the Irish people when they will repeat the lie, and their mantra, that the Irish people had to keep voting until they got it right - which is of course a nasty piece of racism in itself. It was the result of the Irish referendum that prevented the EU Reform Treaty from making progress, and instead led to the Lisbon Treaty which when properly considered was a real step forward for democracy.
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
Or possibly, the UKgov knew this and decided they would do it anyway and assumed Ireland would let them get away with it. Again.
Or maybe @monkers isn't quite such a shit-hot legal brain? Don't you think Gina Miller would have used these arguments too? Like I said, you can't take documents with hundreds of thousands of pages, written in complex legal language and distill it to this.....

If any country takes an action that has the affect of undoing a democratic action taken in another sovereign country, that is termed an 'external impediment' and as such is generally unlawful under international law.
without someone pointing out that if that was correct then a simple court case would sort it all out :rolleyes:

However the final legal brains in the country, the EU and even the world, have not found this to be the case, so sorry, monkers is just wrong.
 
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