Brexit, what genuine effects have people experienced?

monkers

I'm still watching you ...
Or maybe @monkers isn't quite such a shit-hot legal brain? Don't you think Gina Miller would have used these arguments too? Like I said, you can't take documents with hundreds of thousands of pages, written in complex legal language and distill it to this.....



without someone pointing out that if that was correct then a simple court case would sort it all out :rolleyes:

However the final legal brains in the country, the EU and even the world, have not found this to be the case, so sorry, monkers is just wrong.
I know the signs of someone just looking for an argument.

For what is now the third and final time - only an offended member state of the UN can make a complaint against another UN member state - both will need to have acceded to the relevant articles of the Vienna Convention.

Gina Miller is a person, an individual, she is not a member state of the UN, and nor am I. Neither of us is a citizen of the offended state.

I'm left wondering what your problem is? Perhaps you'll be kind enough to enlighten the thread?
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
There's your answer then.
Except this thread is called 'Brexit- what genuine effects have people experienced', not 'Shops- what don't they have in stock this week'

There are many reasons things go out of stock, someone mentioned veg and fruit earlier, lots of that comes air-freight direct from the African continent. I recently dealt at work with a complex reagent, the lab person was telling me they couldn't get it due to Brexit, I asked where it came from and he said 'direct from California', again, California is not in the EU (or it wasn't, I stand to be corrected).

Just because something isn't available, it isn't always because of Brexit!

I keep reminding, I speak as someone who voted remain. We need to find a way of moving on with this now though, we are here, we aren't going to have a vote to rejoin for many many years, putting energy into solving any issues is the key, not endless pointing out how you can't get organic Argentinian raisins anymore because of Brexit!
 
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True, you can't be a 'remainer' given that we left last year, so I suppose I am now a 'rejoiner'. We must move forward by renegotiating the awful deal, look to rejoin a customs union, then the single market, and eventually the EU. We will probably need to wait a while for the leavers to come to their senses, or die off though.
We cannot renegotiate the deal, it is done, all we can do is work to improve elements of it over time.

The bits about rejoining will require a huge shift in our government and opposition attitudes, and will require real problems to be seen to be affecting the daily lives of the population. It is all speculation at this time but I cannot see us even beginning to talk about rejoin for 10 - 20 years. Then another five or ten for the politics and a referendum. But I am a cynic when it comes to politics, others may think timescales will be shorter.
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
I know the signs of someone just looking for an argument.

For what is now the third and final time - only an offended member state of the UN can make a complaint against another UN member state - both will need to have acceded to the relevant articles of the Vienna Convention.

Gina Miller is a person, an individual, she is not a member state of the UN, and nor am I. Neither of us is a citizen of the offended state.

I'm left wondering what your problem is? Perhaps you'll be kind enough to enlighten the thread?
Oh dear, I am not looking for an argument.

You have pointed out a very simple way that Eire could have put the breaks on Brexit. As a member state they could have done everyone a favour and complained, and as it would have been unlawful they would have won easily. Maybe your interpretation of these very complex laws, treaties and arrangements is somewhat, well, naive?
 

monkers

I'm still watching you ...
Oh dear, I am not looking for an argument.

You have pointed out a very simple way that Eire could have put the breaks on Brexit. As a member state they could have done everyone a favour and complained, and as it would have been unlawful they would have won easily. Maybe your interpretation of these very complex laws, treaties and arrangements is somewhat, well, naive?
I think you being really rather rude.

If anyone is naive, you might need to hold a mirror up. What I said was clear enough, it should have been obvious to you that the UK as a member state was not going to make a complaint to the UN about itself. It should have been obvious that unlike the ECtHR it is not possible for a citizen to make a complaint - but you managed to mention Gina Miller and insult my intelligence at the same time.

You've made your own shortcomings pretty obvious. Still, better luck next time.
 

the snail

Guru
Location
Chippenham
We cannot renegotiate the deal
Why not? It's not a done deal by any means, the idea that Johnson has 'got brexit done' is nonsense. There will be years of horsetrading to come, the deal allows for that, albeit going the wrong way, in that divergence in standards will lead effectively to cancellation of parts of the deal. Nothing is settled forever, if the will is there, the deal can be renegotiated. It's a lose/lose deal, so why wouldn't it be changed?
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
I think you being really rather rude.

If anyone is naive, you might need to hold a mirror up. What I said was clear enough, it should have been obvious to you that the UK as a member state was not going to make a complaint to the UN about itself. It should have been obvious that unlike the ECtHR it is not possible for a citizen to make a complaint - but you managed to mention Gina Miller and insult my intelligence at the same time.

You've made your own shortcomings pretty obvious. Still, better luck next time.
Yes, but what you haven't explained is why Southern Ireland didn't complain, after all it was apparently their sovereignty the UK was breaching.
 

monkers

I'm still watching you ...
Yes, but what you haven't explained is why Southern Ireland didn't complain, after all it was apparently their sovereignty the UK was breaching.
I'm trying to forgive your ongoing snarky tone, but I can't. If you were genuinely interested in the answers, I'd persist. It's clear enough to me that your only motive is point scoring. (And you're not doing so well as you might think).
 

JBGooner

Senior Member
Why not? It's not a done deal by any means, the idea that Johnson has 'got brexit done' is nonsense. There will be years of horsetrading to come, the deal allows for that, albeit going the wrong way, in that divergence in standards will lead effectively to cancellation of parts of the deal. Nothing is settled forever, if the will is there, the deal can be renegotiated. It's a lose/lose deal, so why wouldn't it be changed?
Good point. The only reason I can't see the agreements being modified into the future is if the EU Commission continue putting their own power and prestige above that of the prosperity of the member states.
 

icowden

Über Member
Location
Surrey
Except this thread is called 'Brexit- what genuine effects have people experienced', not 'Shops- what don't they have in stock this week'
There are many reasons things go out of stock, someone mentioned veg and fruit earlier, lots of that comes air-freight direct from the African continent. I recently dealt at work with a complex reagent, the lab person was telling me they couldn't get it due to Brexit, I asked where it came from and he said 'direct from California', again, California is not in the EU (or it wasn't, I stand to be corrected).
In many ways the Government has been fortunate in terms of Brexit that there is also a worldwide pandemic to deal with. Thus it is hard to determine which stock issues are due to production problems vis a vis Covid and which are due to poor trading arrangements with our largest trading partner.
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
In many ways the Government has been fortunate in terms of Brexit that there is also a worldwide pandemic to deal with. Thus it is hard to determine which stock issues are due to production problems vis a vis Covid and which are due to poor trading arrangements with our largest trading partner.
If something is coming from California, it isn't coming from the EU. Simple
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to forgive your ongoing snarky tone, but I can't. If you were genuinely interested in the answers, I'd persist. It's clear enough to me that your only motive is point scoring. (And you're not doing so well as you might think).
Well, don't forgive me then. Just answer the question.

You have put up several long posts explaining the unlawful nature of the referendum, Brexit and put up arguments using all manner of treaties and bills and what have you. Which is great and all very illuminating and really shows you spend a lot of time reading around the subject. Sadly it doesn't mean a thing. If it did then at least one of the clever lawyers, barristers, politicians, activists or EU member states would have spotted it.

But anyway, you can simply avoid having to answer any of that by saying I am being snarky and you don't want to answer.
 
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