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Carillion on the verge of collapse.

Discussion in 'News and Current Affairs' started by Slick, 12 Jan 2018.

  1. BoldonLad

    BoldonLad Senior Member

    Location:
    South Tyneside
    May be we should Nationalise them?

    People seem to think it would work for the Railways, why not Carillion?
     
    Slick likes this.
  2. MikeG

    MikeG Veteran

    Location:
    Suffolk
    No-one who remembers British Leyland or British Rail would ever say that nationalisation works.
     
    Chris S, pauldavid and Slick like this.
  3. BoldonLad

    BoldonLad Senior Member

    Location:
    South Tyneside
    Just to clarify:

    Having lived through the 70's, I remember them, and British Gas, GPO/British Telecom..... etc

    I did not say it would work, I said that many people THOUGHT it would work. ;)
     
    Slick likes this.
  4. MikeG

    MikeG Veteran

    Location:
    Suffolk
    I know. I was talking about those people, not you.
     
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  5. OP
    OP
    Slick

    Slick Über Member

    To be honest, that was my original point. I was and still am against nationalisation, but I wondered how this bail out would sit with the same people who were for it.
     
  6. KneesUp

    KneesUp Veteran

    I remember both.

    Nationalisation is appropriate for some industries and not others. I think all parties agree on this, hence we do not (yet) have a privitised army. The only area of disagrement is which industries work best nationalised.

    I would argue that rail is best nationalised, and it needs to be understood that it is a public good - we all benefit from people using the train whether or not we actually use it ourselves, ergo we all need to pay for it. I remember all the fuss about how much subsidy BR got, but no-one looked at the benefits (like a rail freigth system that was much more used, so there were fewer lorries, or relatively affordable fares) and weidly no-one seems to care that now those subisides are still paid but go to private companies.

    The health service should be nationally owned and run simply because health care should not be determined by wealth. It's that simple.

    Nationalising a company in a market where it is sensible to have more than one supplier (e.g. car industry) is not a great idea in the long term, but is accpetable as a short term option, much as (it seems) with banks.
     
  7. MikeG

    MikeG Veteran

    Location:
    Suffolk
    I argue that this is a false choice. A not-for-profit private company is another alternative, for instance. Franchises and pseudo-competition are not a compulsory part of privatisation. I notice that you didn't make any mention of over-manning, strikes, closed shops, endless cancelled trains, late arrivals, decrepit rolling stock, and so on, but seemed only to recall positives.
     
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  8. Grant Fondo

    Grant Fondo Parks, Hotels and Palaces, Europe Endless.

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Thatchers dream was that outsourcing into the hands of a Carillion or Interserve would reap big benefits to the taxpayer, maybe so until they breach their loan covenants at which point the model fails. I understand Interserve was worth about the same as the cost of tarting up Big Ben a month ago.
     
    Illaveago likes this.
  9. Regulator

    Regulator Treachery is noble when aimed at tyranny.


    We don’t have to recall it... we can live it daily on much of the privatised network.
     
    ABikeCam, The Jogger, mjr and 3 others like this.
  10. meta lon

    meta lon Guru

    Location:
    pboro
    Laughing stock - rolling stock
     
    Illaveago likes this.
  11. MikeG

    MikeG Veteran

    Location:
    Suffolk
    To an extent. I think there was also an element of having to bring the unions to heel, with strikes, ridiculous closed-shops, and vast over-manning. It was a boil which needed lancing, and I think their only (short-sighted) concern was privatising it very quickly in such a way as to make it almost impossible to renationalise, given that they expected to lose the next election. Just because the privatised model they chose is a poor one doesn't mean that the way to fix that is to go back to a nationalised railway system. I'm not such a huge fan of governments that I expect them to run things like railways well.
     
  12. Freds Dad

    Freds Dad Über Member

    Location:
    Gawsworth.
    Now in liquidation although our money will be used to provide funding for public service run by Carillion. I'm sure I read somewhere over the weekend that the CEO had secured his bonus before the recent collapse.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42687032
     
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  13. OP
    OP
    Slick

    Slick Über Member

    Attempts to raise a rescue package have failed so steps to enter administration have already begun. Some so called expert on the news this morning obviously far too interested in retribution than getting the best deal for the tax payer. Having run a small business for 15 years in the construction industry, I'll be very interested as to what happens next and what changes to the rules are brought in when the inevitable 10 pence in the pound offer is made. Maybe they have to go to the brink, before common sense is applied.
     
    classic33 likes this.
  14. OP
    OP
    Slick

    Slick Über Member

    Cross post, sorry.
     
  15. Regulator

    Regulator Treachery is noble when aimed at tyranny.

    There'll be quite a few NHS CEOs with squeaky bums this morning, wondering how their half built facilities will get finished or who will be feeding their patients...
     
    raleighnut, SpokeyDokey and Illaveago like this.