Cheeky train question (Sheffield/Rotherham area)

[Bigsharn]

Hypothetical question of course...

Ignoring the legality and morality issues, would it be possible to get off a (Southbound) train at Meadowhall, if you had a ticket for Sheffield? ie. Are there any ticket barriers at Meadowhall station?

 

[Soltydog]

There are no ticket barriers as such, but some times there will be ticket inspections at Meadowhall. If I were to be met with such an inspection I would just say I've had a phone call & I need to meet someone at Meadowhall now before going to Sheffield

 

[Bigsharn]

Cheers No inspections

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Legality aside I see absolutely NOTHING immoral about paying for a trip to Sheffield and getting off early. That some train companies penalise people for doing so is obscene and immoral

You wouldn't go to a restaurant that charged you extra if you ordered and paid for a meal then failed to lick your plate clean

AFAIK (for future journeys) no Northern Rail services impose penalty fares for early disembarking

 

[Soltydog]

AFAIK (for future journeys) no Northern Rail services impose penalty fares for early disembarking

Not 100% on that, but maybe right.
I know if you have a cheap advance ticket with connections on Northern, the vast majority of Northern conductors are not bothered what time train you are on
A couple of years ago 2 of us were travelling from Newcastle to Hull. Advance with East Coast was £9, single from York to Hull (Northern with no advance cheap tickets) was about £19 IIRC

 

[ColinJ]

I was told that if I had valid tickets from Manchester to Littleborough and Littleborough to Hebden Bridge, they were only valid on those trains that actually stopped at Littleborough, and not the trains that pass through it without stopping! I jokingly asked if I had to get off the train at Littleborough and then get back on again. No, no, that would not be necessary - that would be silly - I could remain sitting in the same seat ...

The reason I had such a combination of tickets in the first place was that I discovered that I could travel on the same trains to visit my family and save up to £20 by buying 4-6 single tickets rather than one return ticket! They won't tell you that when you go to buy the tickets. You have to mess about trying to buy various combinations of tickets until you hit upon the cheapest combination.

The fragmented railway system we have now is a right mess!

 

[Soltydog]

I was told that if I had valid tickets from Manchester to Littleborough and Littleborough to Hebden Bridge, they were only valid on those trains that actually stopped at Littleborough, and not the trains that pass through it without stopping! I jokingly asked if I had to get off the train at Littleborough and then get back on again. No, no, that would not be necessary - that would be silly - I could remain sitting in the same seat ...

Similar to Goole-Thorne/Thorne - Doncaster. One year on the 1st April, one of our conductors at Hull announced that it was company policy as it was the start of the new financial year that passengers buying two tickets had to alight then rejoin at said station. 3 or 4 passengers did actually do it & they were informed by a happy smiling conductor it was Aprils fool The sad thing is he'd probably get disciplined nowadays for it

 

[Red Light]

You are, with some exceptions, allowed to get off the train ("break your journey") at an intermediate stop if you so wish. You can also make the journey up from two tickets provided the train stops at the station where the tickets change over. It can sometimes be a lot cheaper splitting a ticket in that way.

National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you
want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to
some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant
Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other publications.
If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess
fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of
the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to
start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have
used.
A ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground and/or
Docklands Light Railway does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of
the stations on these networks unless it is a Season Ticket or a Travelcard.
8
For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your
journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start
your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably
complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff.

......

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire
journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one
ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include
Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the trains of
a particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).
If you do not comply with this Condition, you will be treated as having joined the train
without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply, either to the entire
journey, or from the last station where the train stopped at which at least one of the
tickets was valid.

 

[Red Light]

I was told that if I had valid tickets from Manchester to Littleborough and Littleborough to Hebden Bridge, they were only valid on those trains that actually stopped at Littleborough, and not the trains that pass through it without stopping! I jokingly asked if I had to get off the train at Littleborough and then get back on again. No, no, that would not be necessary - that would be silly - I could remain sitting in the same seat ...

The reason I had such a combination of tickets in the first place was that I discovered that I could travel on the same trains to visit my family and save up to £20 by buying 4-6 single tickets rather than one return ticket! They won't tell you that when you go to buy the tickets. You have to mess about trying to buy various combinations of tickets until you hit upon the cheapest combination.

The fragmented railway system we have now is a right mess!

The same rules applied under British Rail so nothing to do with the rail system.

 

[Soltydog]

You are, with some exceptions, allowed to get off the train ("break your journey") at an intermediate stop if you so wish. You can also make the journey up from two tickets provided the train stops at the station where the tickets change over. It can sometimes be a lot cheaper splitting a ticket in that way.

National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations
You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you
want to use.

I'm guessing then if you buy an advance ticket at a cheaper price between two stations, you can not break your journey, as your ticket will only be allowed on one specific train 'normally'

 

[Red Light]

I'm guessing then if you buy an advance ticket at a cheaper price between two stations, you can not break your journey, as your ticket will only be allowed on one specific train 'normally'

Yes, one of the conditions of an Advanced Purchase ticket which bans what is called short stopping:

Break of journey

You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary.​

​

You can sometimes bend the rules and still get it cheaper by getting another ticket from the stop before to your end station and use that to get out the barriers otherwise your ticket will not let you out and they will make you buy a new one for the journey you just did.​

 

[ColinJ]

As mentioned above - I saved over £20 by buying 6 separate single tickets instead of one return. I also had to make 4 seat reservations instead of 2 and 4 bike reservations instead of 2. It took me 40 minutes online to discover this combination of tickets, and when I went to the ticket office at Hebden Bridge station to buy these tickets it took over 20 minutes to go through the cumbersome system to actually issue those tickets and reservations. There was a big queue of angry travellers, sorry, customers behind me.

I'd be very grateful if someone can tell me how that makes any sense whatsoever!

 

[ColinJ]

Similar to Goole-Thorne/Thorne - Doncaster. One year on the 1st April, one of our conductors at Hull announced that it was company policy as it was the start of the new financial year that passengers buying two tickets had to alight then rejoin at said station. 3 or 4 passengers did actually do it & they were informed by a happy smiling conductor it was Aprils fool The sad thing is he'd probably get disciplined nowadays for it

That would be quite funny unless you got back on and found that someone had pinched your seat!