1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Coleman Dual Fuel Lamp/Stove

Discussion in 'Touring and Adventure Cycling' started by starseven, 20 Aug 2007.

  1. starseven

    starseven Guest

    I planning a camping trip need some light and some heat.

    I have chosen these based on the distant recolection of a school teacher telling me the "primus style" was much better than the gas cannister versions.

    Am I on the right track, any other recomendations??
     
  2. They are very good, but heavy if you're planning to carry them on a bike. For car camping there's nothing I'd rather have, but on the bike I use a tiny gas lamp and a trangia.
    Hope this helps.
     
  3. Road Fiddler

    Road Fiddler New Member

    They are good and they are heavy and they make everything stink of fuel, they have a habit of flaring up especially when you light them and the fuel is expensive.
     
  4. Road Fiddler

    Road Fiddler New Member

    My post earlier was rushed this morning before going to work so i will expand on it a little. Multi fuel stoves were the best thing going a decade ago and to for some they are still ideal, many soldiers use them but then they have access to fuel. White gas is the best, hottest and cleanest fuel to burn in them but is very expensive, the cheapest way to by it is as lighter fluid but you would need to buy quite a few cans to fill up your cooker which can be a problem, in he UK you can only purchase two cans at a time, if the shop staff know the law on selling hazardous materials.

    Modern gas cocks use a duel mix gas of 70% butane and 30% propane. This mix allows gas to be used in colder environments and burns a little hotter than just butane. Gas is now considered the best fuel by many that venture into the mountains or colder parts of the world. One advantage that gas has over other fuels is that its clean, does not flare up, is relatively safe, self contained, good heat output and easy to light in all conditions.

    Ok now for the light. Gas lanterns are the smallest and lightest you can buy, they are strong and very reliable and the best dont come with a fragile glass bulb.

    The Primus Micro Lantern is probably the best http://www.fieldandtrek.com/sfile/1...Primus/product-Primus-MicronLantern-22765.htm It is the one i use along with the Primus Gravity Stove both great bits of kit although many will find this an expensive option but for me the cost was not an issue as i needed good reliability and fast results over anything else.

    I only use the lantern during the winter months if i am teaching at night, i have used it once to heat my tent.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    starseven

    starseven Guest

    Thanks for that RF , Sorry for being such a dunce but I see three types of stove : the dual fuel colemans, campinggaz/other gas cannisters and the type that use a red fuel bottle that looks like a drinks bottle.

    The latter seem expensive £70 ish for the stove alone , the gas I remember as being not too effective, are you say the gas cannister/campinggaz types are now the best bet or those separate "drink bottle" type are the way to go?

    Again sorry for being a slow learner, its my age!!!;):blush:
     
  6. Road Fiddler

    Road Fiddler New Member

    No worries

    The stove i have and can highly recommend is this one http://www.fieldandtrek.com/product-Primus-Gravity-Stove-18094.htm

    although if you want the best of both worlds take a look at this http://www.fieldandtrek.com/product-Primus-Omnifuel-Stove-18571.htm

    The newer butane-propane mixtures of gas are far better than the butane gas from when you were a boy. Propane stays in a gasses form in colder temperatures than butane and when mixed together the mixture works at the same temperatures as just propane.

    This is an emotive subject though as there are many that would only use multi fuel stoves or even meths stoves. I used gas as a kid and hated it, then i discovered liquid fuels and used a number of multifuel stoves but i found them heavy, smelly and inconveinent. About 5 years ago i noticed a lot of very experienced outdoor people using gas again, when i asked why they all said its easier, cleaner, cheaper and safer. I was sceptical until i spent some time in the wilderness with someone using gas, as soon as i got home i went out and bought the above stove and have never looked back. I have actually thrown away my some what expensive Colman and MSR multifuel stoves in favour of gas.

    I have not had a problem with gas since going back to it not even at -8° C any colder than that i will stick the gas canister into my jacket or sleeping bag for a little while before using it.

    With the stoves above you will see the canister is attached via a pipe this gives a very stable stove and allows you to change canisters without removing your pans from the stove. You are also able to shake the canister if it is close to empty to increase pressure in the canister to get more fuel to the cooker. The stove i have is extremely quick at boiling water and the flame is very adjustable.

    Can i ask how and where you plan to use your stove and what sort of temperatures you think you might experience as in some parts of the world gas canisters are hard to get hold of.
     
  7. Road Fiddler

    Road Fiddler New Member

    I didn't answer your question.... The colmans and the ones with the red drinks bottle thing are all multi fuel stoves.

    The gas stoves come in two types the french Campingaz which has a canister that is punctured and rest with a screw on canisters known as EN417s (this is actually the european safety standard number). I would stay away from campingaz though as the valve on the canister does not screw on but just clips on with a plastic clip and the canisters only contain butane gas, you will have the same problems with it as you did using gas as a kid and not the mix like the rest. If you buy a gas stove go for colman, primus, snowpak, msr, go-system or jetboil, these are all EN417s and are all reliable stoves.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    starseven

    starseven Guest

    Thanks very much for the thorough response, much appreciated.

    The intended use is UK only, primarily Scotland during the milder seasons, I have a young son who is keen to stretch his wings, he has been introduced to camping and wants to try something more remote than a local campsite.

    I have family in Scotland so a few trips up there will be nice and he can get a taste for a little more self sufficient camping.

    I probably want to research equipment because I remember several times as youth myself without the correct equipment or poor quality stuff, which can really spoil a trip.

    Also I have my eye on a Jogle/lejog in 2008 so would like some decent quality stuff that may help me through that>

    Cheers and Thanks Again, I think the primus stuff, lantern and stove , look just the job.
     
  9. Road Fiddler

    Road Fiddler New Member

    Reading the above i feel the primus stove and lantern is ideal for you and relatively safe around young ones.

    If you need anymore advise dont hesatate to ask.
     
  10. Bigtallfatbloke

    Bigtallfatbloke New Member

    Given that meths is easily available in the uk how about a trangia cookset?

    http://www.simplyhike.co.uk/ProductDetails.aspx?StockID=23185

    or with a gas burner?
    http://www.simplyhike.co.uk/ProductDetails.aspx?StockID=23193

    I have a just spent 10 days cooking on one and it was perfect for me. Non stick, leight weight, compact, windproof and smell free (if you pack away the mets burner properly). Also cheap (given that this is a full cookset and not just the stove). You will need to carry a bottle of meths though, which I found to be absolutly no problem at all in terms of weight, safty or bulk. I simply wrapped the bottle in two sealed poly bags and carefully placed the bottle in an external zip pocket of my panniers. You could also carry it in an additional water bottle cage under your frame.

    I managed to cook the following:

    chile con carne (not from a packet)
    Beef stroganoff (not from a packet)
    Bangers beans and mash
    Pasta and bolognaise sauce (not from a packet)
    Tuna steak and rice
    Ravioli
    Chicken in cream and mushroom sauce 7 rice (not from a packet)

    ...there are also loads of packet meals.

    Tea & coffee, soup, etc are easy.

    If you do go this route I suggest you get the non stick version. Very easy to wipe clean. I also suggest you get a small frying pan lid (i stole a slightly bigger baking tin from the Mrs) as this will really help reduce the amount of meths it takes to cook a meal. Or get one of these:

    http://www.simplyhike.co.uk/ProductDetails.aspx?StockID=23207

    On the downside....meths isnt readily available in campsite shops...but there is alwys a hardware /DIY place in UK towns. I hear that it takes longer to cook than gas burners, however I can boil a pan of water in about 4 minutes with the lid on.

    As for the light....well I just use my cycle lights inside the tent at night. I also carry two small T light candles, which if you place inside the trangia wind shield reflect a good amount of light up inside the flysheet (enough to read by) and the flame is safe given the stable wind shield surround.
     
  11. vernon

    vernon Harder than Ronnie Pickering

    Location:
    Meanwood, Leeds
    Like Bigtallfatbloke observed, you've not included a Trangia in your options. It's an idiot proof cooking set up. Safe, and relatively cheap to run. Meths can be bought from most hardware shops though it's worth seeking out Wilkinsons as they are consistently at the cheaper end of the prices charged for the stuff at about £1.50 per bottle. In France it's even cheaper at half the UK price.

    As for lighting, a battery lamp is perfectly adequate though there are shielded candle powered lamps that are both lighter (sic) and less bulky than gas powered lamps..

    it all depends what you want the lamp to do. I use a cheapo Petzl head mounted lamp that cost all of a fiver from ASDA.
     
  12. Road Fiddler

    Road Fiddler New Member

    Trangias are an amazing simple bit of kit, i have a mini and a Swedish army on i dont use them much nowadays. The trangia kettle 25 or 27 are great and one bit of luxury i afford myself when out and about.

    I have issues with trangias though. A trargia is big and bulky, the 27 is almost the same size as my 4 man Kiva tent. They can be hard to light the only reliable way to light it is with a Swedish fire steel. Even with these i have seen many people struggle to light there trangias in inclement weather often with the person giving up and getting a hot brew from someone. They are slow, it is possible to boil a kettle of water in 4 minuets but the conditions have to be perfect, its not uncommon to have to wait 30 plus minuets for the water to boil. Some people say they dont mind the time it takes to cook a meal in them as it gives them time to stop and rest but that means a meal stop has to be planned to a degree. If the weather is bad, you are cold and wet, your energy is down and you cant get out of the elements but you need to stop for a quick warming brew and something warm to eat the trangia is not ideal.

    The fuel, meths is heavy, not very efficient, dirty and smelly. Meths does not burn with great heat and is very dirty leaving soot on your pans. In the UK you can apply to customs and excise for a licence to buy, store and use industrial denatured alcohol in camping stoves which burns a lot hotter and cleaner, without checking my license i think it allows you to up to 20 letters a year but it is quite hard to find companies that will sell it to you in these quantity's and it is not sold in DIY stores so if you went down this route you would have to carry all your fuel for each trip. Be warned if you do have this licence customs and excise have the power to enter your home at anytime to check you are storing the fuel correctly and that you have receipts for every purchase so they know you have not exceeded your allowance, saying that this has never happened to me but they have phoned me on a couple of occasions to have a friendly chat. If you are interested in this, here is a link to the relevant web page http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...HMCE_CL_000263&propertyType=document#P68_7276

    If you do experience a leak of any liquid fuel into you food and kit you soon realise how inconveinent it is
     
  13. Bigtallfatbloke

    Bigtallfatbloke New Member

    My trangia burner and cookset weighs 850g i think. It is small and compact (18cm) and nowhere near as big as my 2 man tent. Are we talking about the same unit?:ohmy: I have never had any trouble lighting it...I use a bic lighter. I dilute the meths with 10% water which stops the pans getting black underneath.

    Stove in aluminium.
    2 Non-stick 1.0 litre saucepans, graded and ungraded.
    1 Non-stick Frying pan, 18 cm.
    2 Windshields (upper and lower).
    1 Burner.
    1 Handle.
    1 Strap.

    Weight 850 g.
     
  14. domd1979

    domd1979 New Member

    Location:
    Staffordshire
    The Coleman F1 Lite gas lantern only weighs 88g (excluding gas canister obviously).

    I'm not convinced by cheapo head torches.... You do get what you pay for with Petzl - they're decent bits of kit, and last well. I've got a Petzl Myo XP, which is really good, and I doubt cheaper rivals would be as good on the brightness front.

     
  15. Road Fiddler

    Road Fiddler New Member

    ok size and weight are not really an issue for many people when it comes to a stove as the weight saved on a stove is cancelled out by big bulky pans but for me i want the best and most efficient kit i can get because i spend so much time out of doors in all weathers and my kit has to perform at the highest level. If i am out with 20 clients in -20°C temperatures in Norway my kit has to perform so it does not distract me from overseeing the safety of my clients. I have spent many thousands of pounds on kit that does not meet my expectations or survived extended time in harsh environments. I can only advise on personal experience.

    The trangia is a great bit of kit and it has a huge following, sadly some people do not understand some of the limitations of the trangia (lets be fair everything haves limitations, i feel the trangia is better than many other stoves out there), may be i am being harsh as i teach wilderness living and survival and expect a piece of kit to coupe with the worst mother nature can through at it (trangia is actually pretty good at that). As for touring in the UK the trangia and other stoves are probably ideal but i feel happier about discussing the limitations so people can make an informed decision. I feel i have highlighted the limitations of the trangia above for you they might be excitable or not even limitations but for me they are major limitations. I am not saying the stove i use is without limitations because there are lots, it has working parts and it can fall to bits but its easy to look after on the whole and its reliable and works very well even when things are rapidly going down hill.

    Mt stove weighs 256g and that is a heavy weight compared to many gas stoves add my cook pot that weight goes to 361g, less than half the weight of the trangia, by adding the weight and luxury of the kettle it comes to 548g and then a median sized gas canister 921g. That's good going under a Kg with enough fuel for around four days cooking and making brews. 500ml of meths ways 454g and is probably good for between a day and two days cooking and brews in ideal conditions add to that the weight of the trangia 850g (oh my tent ways 1.6Kg) and the weight if a second bottle of meths to make 1000ml to alow cooking and brew making for around the same time as a can of gas comes in at 1.75Kg almost double the weight of the gas option and slightly heavier than my tent.

    The two most important fundamentals of outdoor living is shelter and fire in this case tent, sleeping bag and stove for me weighs in at, Tent 1.6Kg Sleeping bag 1.3KG and stove and cook kit 921g weighs in at 3.82Kg which is nothing considering many 2 man tents can way that and there is a lot of lite weight kit out there that comes in a lot lighter. To be honest i dont think i would take a my 4 man tent on a cycle tour instead i would take a bivi bag and tarp taking the weight down to around 3Kg. I would be aiming for all my kit to way around 6Kg including some light snacks but excluding main meals and water.

    I am not having a go at anyone for there kit selection but just trying to highlight the fact through wise kit selection you can have good reliable light good quality equipment. My stove and cookware is expensive compared to a trangia but cheap compared to a multi fuel stove, the tent costs £200 which is very reasonable for its size compared to some 1 and 2 man lightweight tents on the market and the sleeping bag is about £80 so not overly expensive. Kit only becomes expensive when you by lots of different types to try and by the best that suits you.

    If you have a trangia or other stove that you are happy with stick with it as they are good to a certain degree.