Could Mohammed move a mountain or was that just PR?

winjim

✊🏻✊🏾 🌈 ♀️ 😷
Reading this thread I am just amazed that someone can hold views which if they were not hiding behind religion would get the post removed and probably a forum ban. If nothing else it shows what power religion has over society.
Somebody is telling us what their religion teaches them. It's very important for us to try to understand their point of view, in fact I would say that this entire thread is predicated on the need to learn the reasoning behind opinions we may find unpalatable.

It's difficult. But if you're feeling outraged, or offended, or angry, bear in mind that you might not be a million miles away from some of the protestors referred to in the OP.
 

Milkfloat

An Peanut
Location
Midlands
Somebody is telling us what their religion teaches them. It's very important for us to try to understand their point of view, in fact I would say that this entire thread is predicated on the need to learn the reasoning behind opinions we may find unpalatable.

It's difficult. But if you're feeling outraged, or offended, or angry, bear in mind that you might not be a million miles away from some of the protestors referred to in the OP.
What about if I am feeling saddened - does that make me part of the angry mob? Aren't you just a little bit annoyed that hiding such views behind religions makes them alright where anywhere else they would be utterly condemned. We would not accept overt racism and hang around to have a sensible discussion with the poster about their poor upbringing or the fact that they learnt their behaviour from their 'retro' grandfather, we would condemn it immediately. I am more than happy to discuss the relative merits or religion, but this went way beyond that.
 
Somebody is telling us what their religion teaches them. It's very important for us to try to understand their point of view, in fact I would say that this entire thread is predicated on the need to learn the reasoning behind opinions we may find unpalatable.

It's difficult. But if you're feeling outraged, or offended, or angry, bear in mind that you might not be a million miles away from some of the protestors referred to in the OP.
I'm fine with people having a belief, but when that is predicated on a book that they themselves say is open to interpretation, and the books of the Abrahimic faith are not those of a divine being, then the existence of the particular flavour of their holy one is the first base in my view.

If a person is living by their own interpretation of selected aspects of a book, then by definition, their belief is based on something outside of religion.
 

matticus

Veteran
What about if I am feeling saddened - does that make me part of the angry mob? Aren't you just a little bit annoyed that hiding such views behind religions makes them alright where anywhere else they would be utterly condemned. We would not accept overt racism and hang around to have a sensible discussion with the poster about their poor upbringing or the fact that they learnt their behaviour from their 'retro' grandfather, we would condemn it immediately. I am more than happy to discuss the relative merits or religion, but this went way beyond that.
I would very much like to know which overt racism has saddened you on this thread.
No need to be coy - you have plenty of atheists here to back you up if needed!
 

matticus

Veteran
I'm fine with people having a belief, but when that is predicated on a book that they themselves say is open to interpretation, and the books of the Abrahimic faith are not those of a divine being, then the existence of the particular flavour of their holy one is the first base in my view.

If a person is living by their own interpretation of selected aspects of a book, then by definition, their belief is based on something outside of religion.
Fascinating.

Can you tell us who - in your views - has lived their entire adult life on a fixed, unwavering set of principles? How about yourself?
 

Ian H

I am an ancient randonneur, & I stop often for tea
Location
East Devon
Well it always slightly blows apart all these ideas of 'himness' as well, doesn't it ??

'He' created (over half) of us as biological women.

It's almost as if someone decided to create patriachal religions that principally 'worship' men, as a way of justifying inequality between the sexes. :whistle:
It would appear that the early Christian church did ordain women, until it came to its senses and realised that it was obviously a silly thing to do. Roman Catholics & others still prefer to believe that it never happened.
 
Fascinating.

Can you tell us who - in your views - has lived their entire adult life on a fixed, unwavering set of principles? How about yourself?
Mine are generally consistent, but then, I'm not governed by an old book. Someone advocating a religion, should be adherent to the book of their chosen flavour, or they're simply drawing any variations from it from the same source I am.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
It would appear that the early Christian church did ordain women, until it came to its senses and realised that it was obviously a silly thing to do. Roman Catholics & others still prefer to believe that it never happened.
I expect there's an old Super 8 of it somewhere, just waiting to be discovered in an archive :rolleyes:
 

matticus

Veteran
Mine are generally consistent, but then, I'm not governed by an old book. Someone advocating a religion, should be adherent to the book of their chosen flavour, or they're simply drawing any variations from it from the same source I am.
Advocating? What if they're just getting on with life? Why are you telling them how to live?
 
We would not accept overt racism and hang around to have a sensible discussion with the poster about their poor upbringing or the fact that they learnt their behaviour from their 'retro' grandfather, we would condemn it immediately.
Just highlighting this as a general question, rather than a criticism of the poster.

Isn't this a problem in the modern times?

"He has an odious opinion, I'm not even going to listen to him. I'll condemn him". Or her. Or them.

Is a poor upbringing and a "problematic" relationship not a reasonable excuse to have developed the view?

How effective is condemnation in getting someone to change their views? Or even explaining them?

Is understanding the cause not the first step to solving the problem?

Whatever happened to the idea that I might despise your words, but I'll defend to the death your right to say them? (Paraphrased and source unremembered).

Just in relation to racism, is there scope for a difference in opinion in what is racist?
I was once chastised for referring to a friend of mine as "Paddy". The person (not Irish) was well intentioned, certainly, and more than a little embarrassed when I introduced them to my friend ............. Paddy. ^_^
Sometimes a little dialogue can go a long way.

As regards the topic, I'd be inclined to think that religious beliefs have a certain "protection" due to their longevity. At least until such time as they try to impose their beliefs on me.
I see no harm in people believing in The Loch Ness monster, for instance, unless they forbid me from using the Loch or charge me to travel along it.

An argument could even be made that points to the similarities between fundamentalist religions and some of the more extreme proponents in any modern debate.
 

winjim

✊🏻✊🏾 🌈 ♀️ 😷
I'm fine with people having a belief, but when that is predicated on a book that they themselves say is open to interpretation, and the books of the Abrahimic faith are not those of a divine being, then the existence of the particular flavour of their holy one is the first base in my view.

If a person is living by their own interpretation of selected aspects of a book, then by definition, their belief is based on something outside of religion.
You're gonna love it when you find out how the Church of England came to be.
 

AuroraSaab

Über Member
Someone advocating a religion, should be adherent to the book of their chosen flavour, or they're simply drawing any variations from it from the same source I am.
So you're happy with Muslims rigidly adhering to the Qur'an and all it's prescriptions re homosexuality, treatment of women, attitudes to non Muslims, rather than taking a more enlightened approach which attempts to intetpret the teaching for modern times? You'd rather Christians stuck with the strict teaching of the Bible rather than try to discern the essence of the teaching of Jesus and apply it to modern life?

What do you do when a topic isn't covered in your Holy Book? Can you do your own thing? I'm not sure I'd like religious folk running round implementing the moral teaching of their books word for word. Bit scary. We'd have a very segregated society. I'd rather believers applied their, presumably God given brain, to the texts and discerned how to apply the spirit of what it says about God to our times.

Anyway, I don't think anyone makes consistent moral choices 100% of the time. Don't we all pick and choose our morality at times?
 
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C R

Veteran
Location
Worcester
There are only a two gods. I know this for an absolute fact. Ive seen them. Tony Iommi and Jon Lord. In case there was any doubt. Lord Is in the name of Jon...
Ahem, you have forgotten Steve Harris. Three listens of Hallowed be thy Name are in order to atone for the omission. ;)
 
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