Could Mohammed move a mountain or was that just PR?

HMS_Dave

Pillock
Location
Midlands
Ahem, you have forgotten Steve Harris. Three listens of Hallowed be thy Name are in order to atone for the omission. ;)
Yes, and Dicko gets a mention for his ability to hold a note in that song too. Lemmy is already keeping Jon Lord busy tearing it up with his Rickenbacker n all...
 
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Landsurfer

Über Member
So you're happy with Muslims rigidly adhering to the Qur'an and all it's prescriptions re homosexuality, treatment of women, attitudes to non Muslims, rather than taking a more enlightened approach which attempts to intetpret the teaching for modern times? You'd rather Christians stuck with the strict teaching of the Bible rather than try to discern the essence of the teaching of Jesus and apply it to modern life?

What do you do when a topic isn't covered in your Holy Book? Can you do your own thing? I'm not sure I'd like religious folk running round implementing the moral teaching of their books word for word. Bit scary. We'd have a very segregated society. I'd rather believers applied their, presumably God given brain, to the texts and discerned how to apply the spirit of what it says about God to our times.

Anyway, I don't think anyone makes consistent moral choices 100% of the time. Don't we all pick and choose our morality at times?
Good point .. my morality shifts between Gentleman Saint to Heart of Evil on pretty much an hourly basis .... possibly i’m a sociopath ..... but then if i was i wouldn’t be bothered ..... would I ...
 
So you're happy with Muslims rigidly adhering to the Qur'an and all it's prescriptions re homosexuality, treatment of women, attitudes to non Muslims, rather than taking a more enlightened approach which attempts to intetpret the teaching for modern times? You'd rather Christians stuck with the strict teaching of the Bible rather than try to discern the essence of the teaching of Jesus and apply it to modern life?

What do you do when a topic isn't covered in your Holy Book? Can you do your own thing? I'm not sure I'd like religious folk running round implementing the moral teaching of their books word for word. Bit scary. We'd have a very segregated society. I'd rather believers applied their, presumably God given brain, to the texts and discerned how to apply the spirit of what it says about God to our times.

Anyway, I don't think anyone makes consistent moral choices 100% of the time. Don't we all pick and choose our morality at times?
That's a truly bizarre conclusion to draw from a post written by someone that has regularly lumped the books of all the Abrhimic faiths together, and pointed out none of them meet their own definition for a god.
 

AuroraSaab

Über Member
I'd say that when looked at individually none of them provide a single view of the nature of God. The God of the Torah swings from judgemental to compassionate. Jesus's teaching is of a God of love but this isn't always reflected in the rest of the NT. None of them cover every moral situation.

That's why you need to apply your brain to it all. And I don't think believers are being hypocritical or inconsistent when they try to do this.
 

HMS_Dave

Pillock
Location
Midlands
I'd say that when looked at individually none of them provide a single view of the nature of God. The God of the Torah swings from judgemental to compassionate. Jesus's teaching is of a God of love but this isn't always reflected in the rest of the NT. None of them cover every moral situation.

That's why you need to apply your brain to it all. And I don't think believers are being hypocritical or inconsistent when they try to do this.
I agree. I suppose this is why we see jihadists blowing themselves up on poorly constructed bombs made from cillit bang containers. They're too stupid to interpret the readings of their religion and end up "darwined"...
 

AuroraSaab

Über Member
I agree. I suppose this is why we see jihadists blowing themselves up on poorly constructed bombs made from cillit bang containers. They're too stupid to interpret the readings of their religion and end up "darwined"...
They do tend to be the uneducated and gullible, disillusioned and unsuccesful, easily indoctrinated by videos on the Internet, and prey to those looking to exploit their inability to think for themselves. I don't think uncritical following of any ideology is healthy, whether it's religious or political. And ideologies that demand unthinking obedience from their adherents are always dangerous.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
I'm not sure that comparing same sex attraction to substance abuse is really a good direction to take this dialogue...
At least dialogue is happening! It doesn't always last this long.

What they have in common is the absurdity of claiming that God forbids something only having created mankind to be like that in the first place. Another example is 'revilers' or verbal abusers. Social media is full of this, but to say 'God made me like this' is similarly absurd.
.. you are not debating these aspects of the bible in good faith
An interesting turn of phrase. ^_^
Putting aside the 'others', the 'some' who were born homosexual were, as you say, hardly responsible - so why did God make them that way, only to subsequently abominate them?
What I said was It might be some people are born with same-sex attraction, although I am a bit sceptical.

Even if that is true, it is the result of man's fallen condition (the world is no longer 'good') and not something God created them with. They don't have to act out such attractions. It's a very dangerous road to go down if you maintain man either can't or needn't exercise self-control in sexual matters.

Perhaps I am more than a 'bit sceptical'. Sexual awareness doesn't kick in until about 12 years of age, so how can anybody seriously claim to have known their sexual orientation before this. Well not unless someone has put the idea in their head.

Or is your objection if God didn't want us to disobey him, why did he create us with a will that can choose to rebel? That question does arise in the new testament, and it is an understandable one. The answer starts with But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me thus? Of course there is more to it than that, but at least we then start with the right attitude.

Would you rather have been made a puppet? It seems to me most who object to the existence of God do so because they don't want there to be one. They want their 'freewill' preserved, their personal autonomy, the right to do what is right in their own eyes without religion getting in the way. I realised a long time ago that unbelief is chosen, it is an act of the will. Either God does not exist, or he has allowed you to choose not to believe.
Or the dolphins? Or any of the other gay animals:
Are these dolphins believers or unbelievers, Catholic, Protestant, animalist, panentheist? ... :smile:
 
Would you rather have been made a puppet? It seems to me most who object to the existence of God do so because they don't want there to be one. They want their 'freewill' preserved, their personal autonomy, the right to do what is right in their own eyes without religion getting in the way. I realised a long time ago that unbelief is chosen, it is an act of the will. Either God does not exist, or he has allowed you to choose not to believe.
Firstly, reference to the bible is not proof, as first it needs to be demonstrated that it is divine and not a heavily edited text written by mortals using non-primary sources.

I don't think people 'object' to a God of any flavour. I know atheists who would like to believe. What they feel is that there is a lack of evidence to support a belief in the main versions of gods. Living life through the dictat of a book they believed to be fake, would be ridiculous to say the least.

If a god met the definition of the books, they would know what proof they would need to offer to provide that person with that belief. As that hasn't happened, the gods are either not capable, or don't care, which means they fail their own tests for being gods as per what are supposedly their manuals.
 
Location
London
You're gonna love it when you find out how the Church of England came to be.
Well I guess you are referring to a certain someone's temporal interest.
A mirror of a certain other bod's many temporal interests.

Enry wasn't exactly a nice bloke (seem to remember Dickens called him something like "a blood splattered monster" in his children's history) but the popes were far from saintly (mega understatement).
All in all the founding of the C of E was a good thing.
 
Location
London
You'd rather Christians stuck with the strict teaching of the Bible rather than try to discern the essence of the teaching of Jesus and apply it to modern life?
This comes round all the time.
If we have to: "try to discern the essence of the teaching of Jesus" it seems to me that this Jesus character, and god the boss, still hanging around I assume, are extremely poor communicators. I recommend a course - communication and assertion. Come on god, don't be bashful, speak up - in measured tones please.
The Pope is aware of this problem I think.
Couldn't help but notice that in his easter address god seemed to barely get a look in; he preferred to talk about Jesus's nice words.
Reason to me seemed sadly clear - mention god and folks might be tempted to ask what s/he'd been up to the last year.
Whenever god was mentioned, the pope seemed to do a fast shimmy into talking about wars and how bad they are. And how we earthlings shouldn't have them.
God as the new champion of whataboutery.
 

matticus

Veteran
I'm not, and no matter how hard you try, you can't get that from the words I posted.
You're telling them to consistently stick to their holy book (or some such crazy demand).

Why is this? You say that YOU don't live your life that way - why insist on it from others?

Like I said, a suspicion of bad faith is creeping in here, just a suspicion ...
 
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