Countersteering again + video

[alp1950]

Nice video demonstrating countersteering:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc


I know that many people say that if you can ride a bike then you countersteer intuitively. Whilst this might be correct it is instructive to try to analyse what you are doing with a deliberate (& probably exaggerated countersteer). Playing around with this the other day it struck me that there are very definite similarities with initiating a turn on carving skis.

For those of you who both ski & cycle: in skiing the turn initiation comes with weighting your skis with a downward motion; in cycling a brief weighting (pull) of the handlebars on the opposite side to which you wish turn. In skiing you then unweight your skis and move your centre of gravity across the midline and the skis turn; in cycling the lean into the turn also involves a shift in the centre of gravity across the midline (or perpendicular).

I am not sure quite how far to push the skiing analogy, particularly as turning is complex in both sports with obvious differences (eg carved skis turn in part because of the side-cut of the ski). But for me at any rate, the sensation of weighting, then unloading and shifting centre of gravity seems very similar.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Countersteering happens in direct ratio to how far over a bike is banked. If you induce countersteering the bike will lean to the opposite direction in which you have turned the bars.

In my opinion concentration on countersteering inhibits correct cornering technique, which is basically using your eyes to steer the bike. If you do that everything else will follow naturally, including countersteering which existed long before anyone had ever heard of it.

 

[yello]

Whilst I am very aware of the effects of counter-steering on a motorcycle, I am not aware of it on a bicycle. Interesting where they demonstrate the quick shove at slow speeds to drop the bike into the turn, I'm more used to the slight but constant effort used to maintain the line around a bend. I also seem to recall it being said that there was no such thing as centrifugal force.

 

[PrettyboyTim]

Now, I've never ridden a motorcycle, but it looks to me as if countersteering is just a way of getting the bike to lean quickly. You can see how that's important on a motorbike, where the bike is likely to weigh more than the rider. If a rider leans off a machine that is twice his weight the bike is only going to affect the angle of the bike slowly. However, bicycles only tend to be a fraction of their rider's weight so in most cases countersteering to lean the bike will be completely unneccesary as the rider can angle the bike quickly by simply moving his body.

 

[Smokin Joe]

To repeat, countersteering automatically happens on a two wheel vehicle when it is banked into a corner. It happened the very first time you went round a bend on your kiddy bike and it has been happening ever since or you would go straight on and crash.

Motorcycle trainers who "Teach" countersteering are taking money under false pretences. They pass on what sounds good because they read it in a magazine but they have no understanding of it.

You get your bike to lean more sharply by moving your eyes toward the inside of the corner. Look where you are going and you will go where you are looking, the rest happens automatically.

 

[yello]

Or, put another way around, don't target fixate!

 

[Shaun]

Interesting to see it in action (slow-mo).

I've never thought about it, so I suppose it is automatic, but equally interesting to see a demostration of something you've been doing without even realising it.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Interesting to see it in action (slow-mo).

I've never thought about it, so I suppose it is automatic, but equally interesting to see a demostration of something you've been doing without even realising it.

Nail on head!

 

[PrettyboyTim]

To repeat, countersteering automatically happens on a two wheel vehicle when it is banked into a corner. It happened the very first time you went round a bend on your kiddy bike and it has been happening ever since or you would go straight on and crash.

I don't think that's quite correct. Countersteering is probably normally used but is by no means the only way of causing the bike to lean and thus turn. When riding 'no hands' for instance you cause the bicycle to lean by shifting your hips.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I don't think that's quite correct. Countersteering is probably normally used but is by no means the only way of causing the bike to lean and thus turn. When riding 'no hands' for instance you cause the bicycle to lean by shifting your hips.

That's what I am saying. You don't induce countersteering, it happens as a consequence of the bike banking into a turn. It will also do it without your hands on the bars (watch a radio control model motorcycle go round a corner) IF you have the skill and courage to corner fast enough.

 

[Steve Austin]

That video has got some of the most exaggerated examples of counter steering i have ever seen!!!!!

It happens, i'm not suggesting it doesn't but it doesn't happen like in those clips. Anyway suggesting its a 'technique' to be practised on a cycle is bonkers. Its a one way ticket to A&E for any cyclists practising it like in that clip. its a subtle almost indistinguishable motion that happens unconsciously, it is NOT a swerve in the wrong direction and then a correction the other way.

 

[Mr Pig]

suggesting its a 'technique' to be practised on a cycle is bonkers... its a subtle almost indistinguishable motion that happens unconsciously

Totally. When I first heard of it I thought I was missing something. It's like explaining to someone that they should put one foot in front of the other when walking.

 

[PpPete]

And sorry Alp1950 - but you do NOT need to unweight your skis to turn them. I know many ski schools teach that (or used to) - I was taught that way too, many years ago. But it's just plain wrong. Read any of the books by Ali Ross. The apparent "up / down " motion should be sympton of the turn rather than the cause.

Off to try to some countersteering now !

 

[LLB]

A good example of counter steering is on the speedway tracks.

The reason why counter steering works is because of the rake on the forks. If you had the rake behind the steering head (IE spin the handlebars back to front so the front wheel is effectively like a castor wheel), then counter steering wouldn't work.

 

[Mr Pig]

Countersteering is where you have your front wheel slightly pointed in the 'wrong' direction throughout the entire corner.

That's what I thought. You can do that on a pushbike?