CTC forum thread on 'Charity' status

[dellzeqq]

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32222 with Shaun's indulgence and only for those with time on their hands - we're all going to get fantastically bored with this by May.

The proponents of the takeover spend most of their time in hiding - while the sceptics run around stating the obvious. It's a bit like shooting fish in a barrel, but it has to be done!

 

[MacB]

I've been following it with interest, not sure you're going to get the transparency on the accounts though. Probably a combination of the natural 'secret squirrel' stuff that surrounds finance and some/many embarrassing bits. On the pros and cons front I find it hard to see beyond the 'empire building' benefits of charitable status. The Trust already has the main asset of the club which the club now pays rent on? that's a good trick! It's possible to paint quite a dim view:-

CTC a club set up to benefit members and is very financially sound - Trust created on the back of this as a business - Trust gradually takes assets and control from Club - Trust uses Club finances via asset grab, donation and loan to support itself - Club is secure in respect that it can pull the plug and members benefits are sacrosanct - Trust wishes whole shebang to become one in form of charity - Trust, or more specifically the empire builders at the top, secures a larger guaranteed income stream - the new CTC Charity no longer has to guarantee member benefits - new CTC Charity attracts enough in government grants to rid itself altogether of the pesky, lacking in vision, members - ex CTC members sit around wondering how their name, assets and club seem to be trundling on without them - CTC2 created as a members club and the 'cycle' begins again

 

[dellzeqq]

your gift for summary does you credit.....

as for finding stuff out - FOI !

 

[MacB]

I'm also curious about the campaigning and effectiveness v expectations. Like others I wonder how much some of it does, barring burning money and making some noise? I'm joing the CTC purely based on the fact that I've more than got my moneys worth from the night rides. If I were to look at what I'd like from my membership then it would be:-

Insurance - this is a key benefit and very attractive to prospective members, particularly the legal advice, also expanded to include optional bike insurance for theft etc.

Magazine - I would be happy with online content only but there should be the option of either

Large Cycling events - these are excellent for visibility

Database - shared information on routes, maps etc

Discounts - yep any club should negotiate whatever group discounts it can

Tours and Holidays - run as a seperate venture but linked in

Pretty much what exists already plus the tehnical/product/practical advice, and it's this area that I'd want to see more money spent on. At the moment local stuff seems patchy and reliant on volunteers. I'd want to remove the burden from volunteers and start paying people, starting from the bottom up. Chuck the money in at grassroots level, run utility as well as social rides. Create regional drop in centres for hands on practical training in riding skills and mechanics. Visit local schools and organise after school clubs. National campaigns and once a year events are fine but localised, ever present, activities are what will encourage more people to ride. Go door to door and chat to people, send bike mechanics door to door to 'fettle for free' as an intro to the CTC. Embrace commuters, pootlers, families, local issues and make it feel like a club for everyone.

In all of this HQ should only be a guiding hand with a super slick membership process. The executive should be focused on building the club not themselves.

 

[WJHall]

cf IEE

See faint trace of similar bustup at IEE:

http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=174&threadid=7080

Unfortunately the IEE had been a charity for a long time, so members were only able to stop some of the further transfer of power.

John Hall

 

[theclaud]

It hadn't occurred to me until I read one of your posts via the link, Simon, that Newsnet has been effectively a "yes" campaign tool. The importance of the issue is belied by its essential dullness, and it's very easy for the casual observer to be swept along on a tide of enthusiasm from a generally trusted source, rather than read reams of tedious stuff in order to make up her own mind. I think it would have passed me by if you hadn't made a fuss about it. Newsnet is a great e-newsletter, after all, and many of us are benevolently inclined towards its contents before we open it. Have you had any progress with the perfectly reasonable idea of getting a "nay" voice represented in it?

 

[Tollers]

I've been following it with interest, not sure you're going to get the transparency on the accounts though. Probably a combination of the natural 'secret squirrel' stuff that surrounds finance and some/many embarrassing bits. On the pros and cons front I find it hard to see beyond the 'empire building' benefits of charitable status. The Trust already has the main asset of the club which the club now pays rent on? that's a good trick! It's possible to paint quite a dim view:-

CTC a club set up to benefit members and is very financially sound - Trust created on the back of this as a business - Trust gradually takes assets and control from Club - Trust uses Club finances via asset grab, donation and loan to support itself - Club is secure in respect that it can pull the plug and members benefits are sacrosanct - Trust wishes whole shebang to become one in form of charity - Trust, or more specifically the empire builders at the top, secures a larger guaranteed income stream - the new CTC Charity no longer has to guarantee member benefits - new CTC Charity attracts enough in government grants to rid itself altogether of the pesky, lacking in vision, members - ex CTC members sit around wondering how their name, assets and club seem to be trundling on without them - CTC2 created as a members club and the 'cycle' begins again

Well put! It seems to me that they the managment are already lost when they can't sort out how to renew, or even enroll new members. I joined the LCC this year as a result of CTC telling me that my address did not exist. I'll leave dad to fight the club's corner though.

 

[dellzeqq]

It hadn't occurred to me until I read one of your posts via the link, Simon, that Newsnet has been effectively a "yes" campaign tool. The importance of the issue is belied by its essential dullness, and it's very easy for the casual observer to be swept along on a tide of enthusiasm from a generally trusted source, rather than read reams of tedious stuff in order to make up her own mind. I think it would have passed me by if you hadn't made a fuss about it. Newsnet is a great e-newsletter, after all, and many of us are benevolently inclined towards its contents before we open it. Have you had any progress with the perfectly reasonable idea of getting a "nay" voice represented in it?

No. Strange, that. I have written a piece for the next issue of Cycle, but it would be nice to see some balance on Newsnet.

Incredibly (yeah, right) National Office has been tasked with delivering a 'yes' vote in advance of the Special Resolution going to Council. We presume it will be passd, but I do think that National Office should be neutral.

 

[dellzeqq]

Well put! It seems to me that they the managment are already lost when they can't sort out how to renew, or even enroll new members. I joined the LCC this year as a result of CTC telling me that my address did not exist. I'll leave dad to fight the club's corner though.

which he will do with his customary style, verve, elan, wit, je ne sais quoi, brio, chutzpah and all round good eggness!

 

[theclaud]

No. Strange, that. I have written a piece for the next issue of Cycle, but it would be nice to see some balance on Newsnet.

Incredibly (yeah, right) National Office has been tasked with delivering a 'yes' vote in advance of the Special Resolution going to Council. We presume it will be passd, but I do think that National Office should be neutral.

Just had (rather short) notice of the CTC Cymru AGM this weekend in Llandrindod, where KM will be speaking about the Charity thang. No mention of any nay-sayers! I might go, as long as I'm not expected to do mountain-bike bog snorkelling, which is popular in that bit of the world...

 

[theclaud]

No. Strange, that. I have written a piece for the next issue of Cycle, but it would be nice to see some balance on Newsnet.

Incredibly (yeah, right) National Office has been tasked with delivering a 'yes' vote in advance of the Special Resolution going to Council. We presume it will be passd, but I do think that National Office should be neutral.

Just had (rather short) notice of the CTC Cymru AGM this weekend in Llandrindod, where KM will be speaking about the Charity thang. No mention of any nay-sayers! I might go, as long as I'm not expected to do mountain-bike bog snorkelling, which is popular in that bit of the world...

 

[dellzeqq]

Just had (rather short) notice of the CTC Cymru AGM this weekend in Llandrindod, where KM will be speaking about the Charity thang. No mention of any nay-sayers! I might go, as long as I'm not expected to do mountain-bike bog snorkelling, which is popular in that bit of the world...

should you go, then, if the mood takes you, you might

a) ask KM why Newsnet and Cycle are being used as a mouthpiece for the 'pro' vote, and why National Office is running the 'pro' campaign (I have the paper in which the Way Forward Committee is asked to instruct the National Office to ensure the vote goes the 'right' way)
suggest that the Charity is the product of vaunting personal ambition, and watch him struggle to keep his temper!
c) ask him how he intends to account properly for the Cycling Champions and Professional Services projects
d) mention the FNRttC, and stand well back!!
e) say hello to Peter Brake for me. He's a real doll.

sl

 

[dellzeqq]

Just had (rather short) notice of the CTC Cymru AGM this weekend in Llandrindod, where KM will be speaking about the Charity thang. No mention of any nay-sayers! I might go, as long as I'm not expected to do mountain-bike bog snorkelling, which is popular in that bit of the world...

should you go, then, if the mood takes you, you might

a) ask KM why Newsnet and Cycle are being used as a mouthpiece for the 'pro' vote, and why National Office is running the 'pro' campaign (I have the paper in which the Way Forward Committee is asked to instruct the National Office to ensure the vote goes the 'right' way)
suggest that the Charity is the product of vaunting personal ambition, and watch him struggle to keep his temper!
c) ask him how he intends to account properly for the Cycling Champions and Professional Services projects
d) mention the FNRttC, and stand well back!!
e) say hello to Peter Brake for me. He's a real doll.

sl

 

[theclaud]

should you go, then, if the mood takes you, you might

a) ask KM why Newsnet and Cycle are being used as a mouthpiece for the 'pro' vote, and why National Office is running the 'pro' campaign (I have the paper in which the Way Forward Committee is asked to instruct the National Office to ensure the vote goes the 'right' way)
suggest that the Charity is the product of vaunting personal ambition, and watch him struggle to keep his temper!
c) ask him how he intends to account properly for the Cycling Champions and Professional Services projects
d) mention the FNRttC, and stand well back!!
e) say hello to Peter Brake for me. He's a real doll.

sl

I might see how 'a' goes before I venture to try 'b'. Who is Peter and how will I spot him? Count on me for 'd'. All this, of course, is dependent on a quaint little theing called the Heart of Wales Line.

 

[theclaud]

should you go, then, if the mood takes you, you might

a) ask KM why Newsnet and Cycle are being used as a mouthpiece for the 'pro' vote, and why National Office is running the 'pro' campaign (I have the paper in which the Way Forward Committee is asked to instruct the National Office to ensure the vote goes the 'right' way)
suggest that the Charity is the product of vaunting personal ambition, and watch him struggle to keep his temper!
c) ask him how he intends to account properly for the Cycling Champions and Professional Services projects
d) mention the FNRttC, and stand well back!!
e) say hello to Peter Brake for me. He's a real doll.

sl

I might see how 'a' goes before I venture to try 'b'. Who is Peter and how will I spot him? Count on me for 'd'. All this, of course, is dependent on a quaint little theing called the Heart of Wales Line.