Cyclist's death may have been caused by listening to music on her phone

[shouldbeinbed]

You are, I presume, familiar with the boy who cried wolf? He was right on one occasion.

Purely dispassionately and for balance, so was the Daily Mail over Stephen Lawrence. once is enough can be used both ways.

it would appear here that a cycling specific news site and a general 'interest' news site have used near as the same report and ~word for word the same quotes but the one without an innate understanding or sympathy for cycling has incurred the wrath of the cycling community. I imaging The Sun or Mirror or Telegraph or insert name of daily mass circulation paper 'we' approve of here would have had the same dog whistle reactions 'oooh failed to hear a truck = earphones, oooh head injury = no helmet' and written the story exactly like the Daily Mail because they are just as likely to be writing up something on Santa arriving on Kilburn High Road or the latest spiffing wheeze from Donald Trump half an hour later.

PS I do not buy any papers and am exceptionally selective on clicking to the DM online due to their their general world view and ways of expressing them, nor the Sun (Hillsborough).

I also like your christmas Avatar.

 

[jefmcg]

It probably was just a coppa. Comments on damage to my bike by the officer on scene was damage to the wheel. There actually wasn't any. Just a scratch on the forks which they missed.

That's comparing apples and oranges. If you were in a minor {bingle/fender bender/whatever the british call it} in a car, I'd expect a police officer to glance at your car and note down "damage to headlight, front left panel and bumper bar" and leave it at that.

But if you were involved in a fatality, I would expect a crack team of collision experts to be on the scene, measuring skid marks, examining tread wear, taking the car apart later to check brake fluid level and wear etc etc. I assume this team exists. In Australia they used to be called - and I swear I am not making this up - The Accident Appreciation Squad.

But if the police do the same half-hearted investigation of a bike after a minor collision, and one that has resulted in a fatality, then that an indictment on our legal system.

Compare it with this https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/flaw-in-steerer-tube-kills-cyclist.210884/#post-4586285 - expert opinion on the cause of the accident by properly examining the bike (a policeman couldn't differentiate between a failing part and a part that had been damage in the incident), engaging the manufacturer and then drawing conclusions.

 

[mjr]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...hones-kills-mother-coroner-says-caused-death/ another report (hat tip to thirdcrank on CUK forum), but less detail than the road.cc, and odd stuff like claiming the crash happened on Flatgate which has no roundabout.

 

[jefmcg]

As they can't tell whether she was listening to music (which seems slightly surprising given that phones log what apps are running)

Of course they can. They didn't bother doing a forensic examination of her phone either.

I take it back, I am not happy with the coronial process.

 

[User33236]

And yet, some of the most vehement opponents of cycling sound systems (headphones or speakers) ride around with fat straps in front of their ears making whoosh whoosh noises and few people criticise that!

If the straps are such that they make whoosh whoosh noises them they are poorly adjusted and quite rightly deserves criticism IMO.

No point in wearing a piece of equipment you may believe will assist in a crash of you are going to wear it inappropriately.

 

[lazybloke]

If the straps are such that they make whoosh whoosh noises them they are poorly adjusted

Science
Earlier this year I found a quiet rural descent, picked up speed and did a precarious bit of no-handed cycling, alternating between helmet and no helmet.
Conclusion: my ears make as much noise as any helmet straps. No-one ever said my ears need adjusting.

 

[Big Andy]

No-one ever said my ears need adjusting.

Maybe they're just too polite?

 

[mjr]

If the straps are such that they make whoosh whoosh noises them they are poorly adjusted and quite rightly deserves criticism IMO.

Some of them seem impossible to stop on some heads, hence the existence of CatEars and similar products. Now, you could argue that they're poorly-designed or poorly-fitting, but there's plenty of them about, shops are allowed to sell them without proper presales fitting and I've never heard of anyone turned away from a compulsive event for it not fitting properly.

No point in wearing a piece of equipment you may believe will assist in a crash of you are going to wear it inappropriately.

If you're willing to believe that... but there's a whole thread for that discussion. Does anyone remember a coroner ever criticising someone for using a poorly-adjusted or poorly-fitting helmet?

It seems only to matter if someone wasn't using one at all, even if that could be for well-founded reasons. I also wonder if the brother felt social pressure to state “I am told at the time she was not wearing a helmet. I cannot understand why she did not wear it that day. We later found it in the house. She was a stickler for safety.” If she was a stickler for safety, maybe she'd actually looked into helmets, realised the inconvenient truth and was just an unlucky one. If so, it's a shame she didn't explain it to her brother and leave a note. I've told my nearest but I don't want to bore all relatives with it, so I put a web page on my website explaining that I've investigated them and why I no longer use one.

 

[mjr]

[QUOTE 4586485, member: 45"]Possibly. You do need enough length in the outer though so as to not have too tight a curve, which can affect operation.[/QUOTE]
I think that would make the cable jam, not letting the lever reach the bars. I don't know - the comments on brakes and speed/gears in the reports seem like they can't all be true, but the coroner isn't reported as ruling any out explicitly.

 

[User33236]

... I've never heard of anyone turned away from a compulsive event for it not fitting properly.

<offtopic>I have seen people on middle distance and full triathlons (think half IronMan and full IronMan) being pulled up on helmet fitment and told to sort it out or it's game over. But then they are sticklers on rules e.g.making wetsuits mandatory because the water drops 0.1 degree below their minimum value.</offtopic>


Will a full, unedited version, of proceedings ever make it into the public domain and then, hopefully, some of these confusions caused by the way it is written can be seen in full and in context?

 

[hatler]

Yes, there is a class of cyclists who ride poorly maintained BSOs, usually with one brake straddle uncoupled to accommodate the wobble from a broken spoke. They ride rather slowly and wear hi-viz but not helmets.

But they will be aware of the compromised braking performance of the bike, and are therefore unlikely to be taken by surprise when the badly set-up brake doesn't work as well as it should, 'cos it's always that bad. The inference in the report is that she applied the sub-optimal brake, realised it didn't work, and then jammed on the other brake in a panic, resulting in a loss of control. I would contend that that inference cannot be correct.

 

[Pale Rider]

Yeah, you were clearly continuing an argument that you had previously had SC&P, so might not have noticed a new voice (mine).


1) correct 2) incorrect

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/alexander-matthews-b9748452

I am heartened to see that the Mail is still employing an actual journalist - maybe there are more than one. I apologise for my plagiarism remark above, I am sure that road.cc purchased the article rather than stole it.

More article by him
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-using-mobile-phones-reading-maps-wheel.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...len-van-just-42-MINUTES-reported-missing.html

Nothing world shattering, but perfectly fine tabloid writing.

The reporter who did the inquest wasn't Matthews, as he says he's based at the Mailonline newsdesk.

He got the agency copy and was told to rewrite it in Mail style - nothing wrong with that - but he is not the reporter in the East Riding coroner's court in Hull.

Had the Mail staffed the job, road cc would not have got exactly the same copy.

Similarly, Jamie Johnson - the name on the Telegraph story - wasn't in Hull.

In his case, he's rewritten the agency copy and got some reaction from interested parties - RoSPA and Cycling UK.

 

[smutchin]

The problem with the Mail report is that it's unclear whether the lorry was already on the roundabout or joining at the same point as the cyclist. The road.cc report is only better in that it's clearer on that point.

As to why the brother commented on the lack of helmet, he was probably answering a direct question.

I suspect the truth about the brakes is that the blocks were worn to the point where they needed replacing. It's not only people on BSOs who ride around with badly adjusted brakes. This may or may not have been a factor in the crash.

The headphones are a major red herring and it's a shame this is the focus of the story.

 

[Dan B]

No-one ever said my ears need adjusting.

Ah, but. If they did, would you have heard them?