Deliveroo IPO disaster - A question of ethics

dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
They are technically self employed, so if you deliver in the rich neigboughoods of London you probably make that £9-10 on average so that are most likely the numbers Deliveroo used. If you deliver in a village/remote area with maybe 100.000 residents and on average lower incomes, your most likely closer to that £2 an hour.
The offer has been widely described as a 'disaster', but I wonder if it's so bad.

As I understand it, £1,000 invested is now notionally £666, although public trading has yet to start.

Seems to me there is an expectation a share offer will automatically return instant profits, but why should it?

The price could easily recover over time, enabling those early investors to get most of their money back.

And it could be worse, one of my very few small investments went into pre-pack administration.

The value of my shares was wiped out overnight, and since they no longer exist, the 100% loss is permanent.
Sure but the expectation was that this stock would sky-rocket, mainly because the surge in home deliveries is not likely to come down anytime soon and Deliveroo has a respectable market share. But anouncing a 300 million loss and a court ruling that axes your bussiness model are not so good for investors convidence,
it would be interesting to see some proper analysis of what would happen to worker hours and earnings if Deliveroo were to move away from the "gig economy" model.

Clearly, it is nonsense for Deliveroo to pretend that a 15 minute gap between deliveries during a busy evening period doesn't count as time spent working.

On the other hand, it is unrealistic to pretend, as some of Deliveroo's critics do, that any employer is ever going to pay workers a wage for all the hours they choose to be logged in as "available to work", regardless of the level of demand for deliveries. It is inevitable that any right to be paid for all hours logged in will be accompanied by the employer restricting the number of logged in slots available at different times, according to the pattern of demand. It's not obvious what this would end up looking like. It might suit some of Deliveroo's workers very well; but others might prefer the existing system.
In other sectors it happens, but the full story is simply that you can't run a delivery service like Deliveroo having everyone on the payroll ad make profit.
they need to find somekind of construction that works for them, and does'nt disadvantage their drivers.
The lack of trust in their ability to do so is shown in their stock/ipo
 
My uncle was a docker in Liverpool in the 1930's. No regular job. Just queuing each day for any few hours work that might be available, and rates bidded down by desperate men with families to feed.
My grandad ( union convenor), Dad and Uncle (shop steward) were all blacklisted from sites during the boom in industrial construction in Pembrokeshire in the 60's and 70's. It boils my piss to see all the gains made in terms of pay, breaks, and workers rights/ protections eroded away by Uber , Deliveroo and the like, aided and abbetted by government.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
My grandad ( union convenor), Dad and Uncle (shop steward) were all blacklisted from sites during the boom in industrial construction in Pembrokeshire in the 60's and 70's. It boils my piss to see all the gains made in terms of pay, breaks, and workers rights/ protections eroded away by Uber , Deliveroo and the like, aided and abbetted by government.
Aided an abetted by the users of the services.


Aided an
 

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
Aided an abetted by the users of the services.


Aided an
It’s very difficult to blame the end user.
I have never taken an Uber despite living in London. I don’t used deliveroo but prefer to shop direct but I do shop with Amazon because it’s convenient.
Ultimately it’s the government who could control the rise of the gig economy. Consumers just follow the money to the cheapest easiest option.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
I'll happily take an Uber. Certainly would in preference to a black cab. I always have a chat with the driver, they often have interesting stories to tell. I usually ask them what it's like being an Uber driver...does it suit them, do they make enough money.

I can't remember any driver out of the dozens I've chatted with who complained to me about not making enough money. And they all said the flexibility of working when it suited them was a major draw

Of course this is just anecdotal stuff. But I suspect the flexibility of the arrangement with Uber is a significant benefit to the driver
 

Adam4868

Guru
I'll happily take an Uber. Certainly would in preference to a black cab. I always have a chat with the driver, they often have interesting stories to tell. I usually ask them what it's like being an Uber driver...does it suit them, do they make enough money.

I can't remember any driver out of the dozens I've chatted with who complained to me about not making enough money. And they all said the flexibility of working when it suited them was a major draw

Of course this is just anecdotal stuff. But I suspect the flexibility of the arrangement with Uber is a significant benefit to the driver
So do millions of others.Your choice a bit like Amazon,Deliveroo etc,the ethics of these company's go out the window because there convenient/cheap for the customer.Thats what it's all about isn't it ?
I wouldn't touch any of them.Local Black cab or taxi firm for me.Same with ordering from apps for restaraunts etc.I dont use them.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
So do millions of others.Your choice a bit like Amazon,Deliveroo etc,the ethics of these company's go out the window because there convenient/cheap for the customer.Thats what it's all about isn't it ?
I wouldn't touch any of them.Local Black cab or taxi firm for me.Same with ordering from apps for restaraunts etc.I dont use them.
You and I do not appear to agree on most things political, but on this, we agree completely
 

Adam4868

Guru
You and I do not appear to agree on most things political, but on this, we agree completely
Lol...pop back into the Starmer thread and we'll fall out again.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
So do millions of others.Your choice a bit like Amazon,Deliveroo etc,the ethics of these company's go out the window because there convenient/cheap for the customer.Thats what it's all about isn't it ?
I wouldn't touch any of them.Local Black cab or taxi firm for me.Same with ordering from apps for restaraunts etc.I dont use them.
To be clear, I use our local taxi firm if I need a local taxi (the drivers for which are self employed like the Uber drivers). But when I'm in a city I don't know then I use Uber because I don't know the local firms. In London I use Uber because I'm not a multi millionaire and hence black cabs are too expensive. Or I take the tube like all sensible people
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
To be clear, I use our local taxi firm if I need a local taxi (the drivers for which are self employed like the Uber drivers). But when I'm in a city I don't know then I use Uber because I don't know the local firms. In London I use Uber because I'm not a multi millionaire and hence black cabs are too expensive. Or I take the tube like all sensible people
Your multimillionaire comment is the sort of glibly cheap excuse I hear all the time who simplylike paying less and give not a good about the consequences. I've known a few black cab drivers, they are normal self employed guys earning a crust.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
they are normal self employed guys earning a crust.
Black cabbing was regarded as a decent living for guys who were not minded to get a trade or profession, but who were not afraid of hard work.

A lot live on the north east London/Essex border - the cheaper side of the capital although the houses are a fair size.

Before footballers' wages exploded, some ex-pros did the knowledge while playing so they had something to fall back on.

A mate of mine was a prize fighter in the 60s - his dad allowed him to pursue it instead of a proper job on condition he did the knowledge.

After that he spent many years 'in the print' which was well-paid, although you needed family contacts to get in.

He finally started cabbing about 30 years after getting his badge, which he said was a bit daft because he'd forgotten most of the knowledge.
 

Adam4868

Guru
Black cabbing was regarded as a decent living for guys who were not minded to get a trade or profession, but who were not afraid of hard work.

A lot live on the north east London/Essex border - the cheaper side of the capital although the houses are a fair size.

Before footballers' wages exploded, some ex-pros did the knowledge while playing so they had something to fall back on.

A mate of mine was a prize fighter in the 60s - his dad allowed him to pursue it instead of a proper job on condition he did the knowledge.

After that he spent many years 'in the print' which was well-paid, although you needed family contacts to get in.

He finally started cabbing about 30 years after getting his badge, which he said was a bit daft because he'd forgotten most of the knowledge.
I know quite a few,although in the current pandemic they've been effectively put out of work.To drive a black cab and do the knowledge takes commitment as well as money ! 50 grand plus for the electric TXE and that's before you go to work.Four years roughly to do the knowledge.Its a massive investment.
Compared to minicabs/Uber who need a car and sat nav and of you go.Self employed blokes against the likes of Uber is a tough call.Your paying for a service,bit like do you use some dodgy DIY person or a professional.How many attacks every week on people getting into unlicenced mini cabs ? Yea I know everyone is always going to go back to Warboys the black cab rapist.One man out of 20 odd thousand drivers.But I'm sure your a lot safer traveling in a black taxi than minicabs.You pay for what you get.
 

vickster

Legendary Member
I’ve never felt threatened by an Uber driver (they are licensed by TFL). The most recent one was a Covid denier and prattled on about the great reset and bankers. Luckily I was only in the car for 10 minutes listening to his bollox :wacko:
I’ve had some irritating black cab drivers in the past too though!
 

Adam4868

Guru
I’ve never felt threatened by an Uber driver (they are licensed by TFL). The most recent one was a Covid denier and prattled on about the great reset and bankers. Luckily I was only in the car for 10 minutes listening to his bollox :wacko:
I’ve had some irritating black cab drivers in the past too though!
Yet TFL found Uber to be not "fit and proper" there's a fair difference between being irritating and dangerous though.
 
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