Democracy - a failed experiment.

gavroche

Getting old but not past it
Location
North Wales
Does democracy work when stupid people can vote? I'm not talking about people who support different ideologies that you may or may not agree with, I'm talking about stupid people.

At the last General Election in the UK, we saw two approaches. Party A had a simple, inane, stupid three word slogan that they repeated again and again and again. Party B tried to bribe voters with giveaway policies announced almost every day, free this and free that. It's been said that the electorate saw through this but perhaps it's just a case that more stupid people were attracted to A than to B.

At the Brexit vote, one side lied but with a simple message while the other side were complacent and divided with a complex message. Stupid people opted for the simple message

In the US, Trump aimed for the stupid vote with a stupid message and won.

Throughout Europe, extremist parties of Left and Right have made gains with stupid messages making stupid promises that they couldn't keep but more and more stupid people voted for them.

So have the parties pretty much figured out how to get votes - appeal to the stupid?

Is there a system that ensures clever people like us CCers get more influence? Are the Russian and Chinese systems of "elected" dictatorships better for the population as a whole?
Well said. Couldn't agree more. People are too easily led by false promises and can't see through blatant lies.
 

Eziemnaik

Senior Member
 

SpokeyDokey

Into my 64th
Moderator
^_^

The point I'm making is democracy looks to be particularly easy to manipulate by blatantly lying and appealing to base instincts. Socrates and Voltaire both thought democracy wouldn't work because the masses are easily fooled. Aristotle called it a perversion akin to mob rule. Certainly seems true just now.

If there's an arrogance, does it not come from the Western democracies themselves who tell us repeatedly that democracy is best, democracy is worth dying for etc but is it? Is it really?

We don't have a true democracy anyway, we have representative democracy. In a sense, that's a form of epistocracy - we give our votes to someone with political knowledge and allow them to vote on our behalf. However, the party system corrupts that with whips controlling representatives using rewards and/or punishments regardless of the representative's own political knowledge.

But for the sake of argument, why not replace universal suffrage with epistocracy?
Much better without the 'stupid' references. :smile: :okay:
 

Grant Fondo

Oswalds legs look strangely human?
Location
Cheshire
Does democracy work when stupid people can vote? I'm not talking about people who support different ideologies that you may or may not agree with, I'm talking about stupid people.

At the last General Election in the UK, we saw two approaches. Party A had a simple, inane, stupid three word slogan that they repeated again and again and again. Party B tried to bribe voters with giveaway policies announced almost every day, free this and free that. It's been said that the electorate saw through this but perhaps it's just a case that more stupid people were attracted to A than to B.

At the Brexit vote, one side lied but with a simple message while the other side were complacent and divided with a complex message. Stupid people opted for the simple message

In the US, Trump aimed for the stupid vote with a stupid message and won.

Throughout Europe, extremist parties of Left and Right have made gains with stupid messages making stupid promises that they couldn't keep but more and more stupid people voted for them.

So have the parties pretty much figured out how to get votes - appeal to the stupid?

Is there a system that ensures clever people like us CCers get more influence? Are the Russian and Chinese systems of "elected" dictatorships better for the population as a whole?
Imagine the concept of only 'clever' people voting? Anarchy would be a regular companion as the bright protected their lot, and the stupid tried to get a share of it. Not so stupid really?
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
Democracy does not work. Never has, never will.

Only benign dictatorships work. Alas, finding a benign dictator is slightly tricky.
I started a thread years ago about the ideal dictator... I seem to recall that it didn't go very well.
 

RoadRider400

Some bloke that likes cycling alone
The Tories get a huge majority on a 40% vote.
Is this democratic?
Given that the method of voting was itself voted on in 2011 I would say yes, it is democratic. Unless you are proposing we vote on the method of voting before every election.
 

Solocle

Active Member
Location
Dorset / Oxford
The problem is; once you voted you can not change your mind. If you realised that you voted for the wrong people and you helped them to win the election, you can not get rid of them for ages.
5 years really isn't ages in the scheme of things. And, although whoever you voted for might not live up to expectations, you can only speculate what would have happened had the other lot been in charge...:wacko:
 
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