Different attitudes

I use the bike over the car in all possible circumstances, for environmental reasons. I reformed and became very anti air pollution following the death of neighbours daughter from asthma, who I unsuccessfully gave CPR to. That kind of shizzle gives you a major recalibration.
I once thought that was going to happen to my son: he was six months old at the time. Although we didn't have a car back then either, it does make you see things very differently.

As an aside, I've never seen an ambulance move as fast as the one coming to our apartment that day.
 
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ColinJ

Puzzle game developer
I know Drago's big enough and ugly enough to stick up for himself, but for the sake of completeness you really need to include this quote.
Fair enough. A lot of drivers are still pre-revelation though.
 

Stephenite

Membå
Location
OslO
Something interesting happened, and it's been given very little press coverage.

The Mayor of Madrid suspended the cities low emissions zone, thus allowing people to drive in blithely and pollute as they see fit. As a result, pollution levels have shot up in just a few days. Now, this has caused an outrage, and the Mayor has been forced to reinstate it by the court. Not just an outrage from cycling groups, or from environmental groups. No, a massive, all encompassing outrage from Joe Public at large.

The judge said "the health of Madrid" was more important than "the right to travel by car" and reversed the decision, which I think is an absolutely wonderful sentiment.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48886405

Not a big deal on it's own. However, pause a moment to reflect, and think about what would happen is something similar happened here. The bone idle lazy car driving masses would be straight in their SUVs, and Greenpeace might whittle a hit, Cycling UK might wring their hands in annoyance, Chris Boardman might roll his eyes, but little else will happen. The mainstream public at large, the Daily Mail reading masses, that Ill informed idiot Edmund King, they'd be popping champagne corks and celebrating.

Just goes to show how backward and self absorbed our society is compared to some of our more enlightened continental neighbours.
Hurrah!

Some good news for a change.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Agree that it is good and encouraging - but, at the risk of ploughing a regular furrow of mine, I don't think you should be too hard on the Brits.
I mean think how good the Germans are ...... They still won't put a compulsory speed limit on the Autobahn network, only a recommended correct top speed of 130 kph. There is now a ban on Euro 4 diesels going into Stuttgart city centre (other cities pending), due to problems of pollution made worse by geography, it lies in a dip. €80 fine if you happen to be stopped by the police, they aren't actively looking for diesels. There is plenty of opposition to this, citing the ban as discriminatory and an imposition on the liberty of diesel drivers there. I couldn't drive there either, but in view of the pollution I wouldn't want to, that is what matters rather than my personal inconvenience. :angel:

I have some sympathy with those who object to nanny state intefering in everyday life, but if lives are being threatened by pollution, such as soot, doing something about this is more akin to the nurse state, telling you to look after your health. In any event, the freedom the car undoubtledy usually gives goes into reverse when city centres are chock full every day, and it might even be quicker to walk if you can take your own air supply with you.

In all the diesel pollution scandal here, no-one has ever suggested a speed limit for diesels, say 120 kph on the Autobahn and perhaps 90 on major roads. I have little doubt this would reduce pollution. I don't think anyone has ever died from driving a bit slower.
 

mudsticks

Veteran
Reformed environmentalists are worse than reformed smokers, and I'm one of those too.
Do you in fact mean reformed eco - criminals??

Cos if so, I could really do with an apology, maybe not from you personally cos I know it wasnt just so much yourself, doing, and saying the
things.

It's more that after thirty years plus of being pilloried, mocked, and generally marginalised, as a tree hugging, eco warrior nut- job, it would appear that the mainstream is finally catching onto the need for us to do all this more planet friendly, stuff.

And that we might have a (really big) problem, Houston??

It's not that I really want to say "We told you so"

It's more that, you know,

We did kinda tell you so.

And you did sort of ignore us..

Or worse..

And that was a bit (very) annoying.

I'd still rather wake up tomorrow, and discover that all that worry was for nowt.

But that doesn't seem very likely does it??
 
Location
London
On positive things in britain drago, also worth remembering that london has had a congestion zone, charging folk to drive into the central area, for donkey's years. An italian visitor found this almost beyond comprehension. They had heard ugly rumours about it but on visiting asked "is it really true?". Many many young londoners have turned their back on the car, happy to use public transport, walk and cycle.
 
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PK99

Guru
Location
SW19
John Mann MP sent out a survey last night wanting to know our views, I have advised him I am unable to complete the rest of his survey due to question 2.

View attachment 474178

No other options available, he won't enter into discussion about wind, solar etc.
Key word in the question is immediate.

The only immediate options are which available power stations to turn up.
 

mudsticks

Veteran
I don't believe you :laugh::laugh:
Busted...

I know I shouldn't be angry, and p*ssed off, and want to clobber someone over all this. ..

Cos that's not what nice tree hugging hippies, like me, are supposed to want to do.

But our glorious planet having been trashed by a bunch of hubristic, greedy, uncaring, deliberately ignorant folk who thought that we could subvert the laws of nature.

Is a bit annoying tbh.
 
OP
Drago

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Valhalla
Do you in fact mean reformed eco - criminals??

Cos if so, I could really do with an apology, maybe not from you personally cos I know it wasnt just so much yourself, doing, and saying the
things.

It's more that after thirty years plus of being pilloried, mocked, and generally marginalised, as a tree hugging, eco warrior nut- job, it would appear that the mainstream is finally catching onto the need for us to do all this more planet friendly, stuff.

And that we might have a (really big) problem, Houston??

It's not that I really want to say "We told you so"

It's more that, you know,

We did kinda tell you so.

And you did sort of ignore us..

Or worse..

And that was a bit (very) annoying.

I'd still rather wake up tomorrow, and discover that all that worry was for nowt.

But that doesn't seem very likely does it??
Yep, reformed eco criminal is very apt. I'm still an eco criminal, but I'm now better than most. I still have a fridge and a TV, but I try and practice what I preach to at least to some degree. Tiny, minimally polluting car which I use as little as possible, no raping the planet to provide me with a new smartphone every year, wear the same Y fronts for weeks on end to cut down on detergent pollution...

You wont catch me flying across the Atlantic to tell a crowd of people they should fly less, and then fly home afterwards. Those are the real eco criminals, the psychopaths even. They brazenly hide in plain sight and the well intentioned but ultimately easily led eco hippies seem to fall for it.

Blimey. I seem to have started a discussion about societies attitudes to the environment where it contradicts their comfort and convenience. Well, not a bad discussion to have.
 
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Location
London
I don't see what's wrong with the fridge d rago - I keep mine on the cold side so I suppose it uses more power than it might. But that means I can cut my food waste to near zero - in fact I only usually have to chuck stuff when I go away and get the planning wrong. Also means I use very very little boxed food.
 
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