Different attitudes

mudsticks

Veteran
Yep, reformed eco criminal is very apt. I'm still an eco criminal, but I'm now better than most. I still have a fridge and a TV, but I try and practice what I preach to at least to some degree. Tiny, minimally polluting car which I use as little as possible, no raping the planet to provide me with a new smartphone every year, wear the same Y fronts for weeks on end to cut down on detergent pollution...

You wont catch me flying across the Atlantic to tell a crowd of people they should fly less, and then fly home afterwards. Those are the real eco criminals, the psychopaths even. They brazenly hide in plain sight and the well intentioned but ultimately easily led eco hippies seem to fall for it.

Blimey. I seem to have started a discussion about societies attitudes to the environment where it contradicts their comfort and convenience. Well, not a bad discussion to have.
I agree re hypocrisy vis a vis flying places to tell people about green stuff.
Most people I know who do go to these things agonise over it, and try to offset in all other areas of their lives.

But are fully aware of the dissonance.

Personally I turned down an all expenses paid trip to South America, to attend an agroecological conference.

Because I don't fly, and haven't for decades.
Of course in the scheme of things it made no difference, ecologically, but principals have to count for something..


But the real criminals are the likes of the oil companies who have known full well (often through their own research) what the consequences of the untramelled fossil fuel Party would be.

But they muddied the waters, spread uncertainty, and doubt..
In furtherance of their own profits.
That's eco-criminality - right there.

After all its not too difficult to persuade people that the luxuries, and conveniences they are enjoying are totally fine, is it??

And to rubbish all these mithering greenies who are trying to spoil all the fun.

So yes we can try to live differently, as individuals, and do 'our bit' where we can.

(as an aside I happen to have a very nice life, doing useful work, and living with less, having a lot of fun, for very little outlay, biking and cycle touring being a part of that)

But the real change is us, all getting behind, and voting for, the very necessary system change, which is the only real way out of the mess we've made.

So the pressure has to be kept up on politicians, and big corps etc.

So we all say with a loud, and consistent enough voice, that the change has to happen right now.
We need as humans to act and be different, see ourselves as part of the whole, rather than atomised entities.

Sniping at each other for how many smartphones, or plastic bags we use is missing the point.

Business as usual loves all that..
It just becomes another consumer fest, just more 'green tinged' stuff to sell.

Unless we most of us have a change of heart and admit that we've got plenty, and don't need more, and that looking after our life support system, and those people struggling even to survive, is more important than what we immediately want right now, then we will be stuck in the same place, or rather dissappearing over a cliff edge of no return.

OK off for a lovely bike ride.

Peas n lurve :wub:
 
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mudsticks

Veteran
I don't see what's wrong with the fridge d rago - I keep mine on the cold side so I suppose it uses more power than it might. But that means I can cut my food waste to near zero - in fact I only usually have to chuck stuff when I go away and get the planning wrong. Also means I use very very little boxed food.
And you can buy 100% renewable generated electricity, to run your low energy rated fridge.

Seems to work the same as all the other stuff.

It gives your kitchen a bit of a whiff of cumin, but otherwise it's absolutely fine :angel:
 
Location
London
But the real criminals are the likes of the oil companies who have known full well (often through their own research) what the consequences of the untramelled fossil fuel Party would be.

But they muddied the waters, spread uncertainty, and doubt..
In furtherance of their own profits.
That's eco-criminality - right there.
You mean this sort of water muddying?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jG712IBalk&feature=youtu.be


Shell is in the front line fighting world poverty don't you know.
 
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lane

Über Member
On positive things in britain drago, also worth remembering that london has had a congestion zone, charging folk to drive into the central area, for donkey's years. An italian visitor found this almost beyond comprehension. They had heard ugly rumours about it but on visiting asked "is it really true?". Many many young londoners have turned their back on the car, happy to use public transport, walk and cycle.
Nottingham has a workplace parking levy
 
OP
Drago

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Valhalla
I tell ya, a national workplace parking level, payable by all employees who drive would get my vote. However, instead of swallowing the funds into general taxation I would like to see the profits spent on public transport, cycling facilities, even subsidised bicycles for those that eschew the car.
 
Location
London
Nice thoughts but the problem with the last, unless some clever finessing was used, it would discriminate in favour of Londoners etc versus folks in the country who often need a car.
 

lane

Über Member
I tell ya, a national workplace parking level, payable by all employees who drive would get my vote. However, instead of swallowing the funds into general taxation I would like to see the profits spent on public transport, cycling facilities, even subsidised bicycles for those that eschew the car.
In Nottingham it was used to build the tram system.

It isn't payable by all who drive only those tha park in workplace parking and only then if emplyers decide to pass on the cost - but at £400 a space they do tend to.
 

Poacher

Gravitationally challenged member
Location
Nottingham
Nottingham has a workplace parking levy
In Nottingham it was used to build the tram system.

It isn't payable by all who drive only those tha park in workplace parking and only then if emplyers decide to pass on the cost - but at £400 a space they do tend to.
It's also only applied to organisations with ten or more staff parking places.
I was involved with the early stages of development, identifying liable parking spaces from the business rates database. Despite a hate campaign from motoring organisations and individual motorists, it can be regarded as a success, I reckon.

Edit: we also have an excellent bus network in NCT, many buses run on biogas, some electric.
Not sure whether this is subsidised to some degree by the WPL, but great public transport certainly helps reduce traffic congestion.

Further edit: should have put more than ten rather than ten or more spaces. D'oh!
Memory's not what it was! Worth noting that the WPL enabled leveraged external funding for various local transport projects, as seen in this rather self-congratulatory site; other views are available by googling Nottingham WPL.
 
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mudsticks

Veteran
I live in the country..
And wirk there too. If I could afford it I'd prefer just to have an electric delivery van, and maybe a couple of cargo bikes.

And happily go everywhere else by bike, train, or bus.

Of course there could still be electric vehicles for those who really needed them, but we could do with a good deal fewer.

It was great when there was that 'fuel crisis' a few years back, the lanes were so much nicer for cycling and walking..

And if cities were nicer, with bikes and such like then it wouldnt be such a mad scramble to move out to the country (and then commute back) as soon as anyone can afford to.

That's pushed the cost of housing way, above affordable limits for anyone who is actually trying to make a modest living out here..

Unless you married into, or were born in into it..
 
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