Headset either too loose or too tight - never just right

[greenmark]

Sorry, I am sure that a similar problem has been posted before but when I search for info on headsets I end up with far too many results to look through.

I have an issue that I can't get my setting for my headset just right - it either works itself loose or, if I tighten it enough so that it doesn't loosen, it becomes too stiff to turn.

Initially I could not get it tight enough and it was always clunking. I did about 50km of on-road riding on it that way until I worked out that the spacers were only about 1mm above the top of the steerer tube. I cut off 5mm off the steel steerer tube with a pipe cutter (to make sure the cut was even) and now the lip of the top spacer lies about 6mm above the top of the steerer tube - so there is enough room to press down on the spacers.

However, when I tighten the top bolt down to make sure that there is no play in the headset, i usually have to tighten it so tight that it is very difficult to turn. I tried riding it that way for a short period but quickly realised that if I continued, sooner or later I would not be able to turn to maintain my balance.

If I loosen the headset any little bit from being very tight, then immediately there will be some play. I've ridden it this way but find that the play gradually gets worse as I ride the bike and I have to retighten it fairly often.

Whenever I make an adustment, I loosen the fixing bolts to the stem as well and tighten them back after adjusting the headset.

It is a Richey threadless type headset using cartridge bearings. The forks, frame and bike are brand new. The frame and forks in the same box but not attached to each other. The lower crown race was attached to the forks and the headtube races already attached to the frame. A star fangled nut was inserted into the steerer tube by my LBS. The steerer tube is made of steel.

I am now wondering what i the worst case and best case scenario here. Might it be fixed by cutting the steerer again (I have about 2cm of spacers above the stem which I can play with)?

 

[theclaud]

It sounds to me like it's knackered. I've just replaced mine (though it was a threaded one) after a similar scenario, and it was pitted. Do you have what feels like indexed steering?

 

[GilesM]

Greenmark, it sounds to me as though there could be a spacer missing (I am refering to a very thin spacer about .5mm thick), perhaps one that sits between the top cartridges bearing and the top cover cup, some headsets use this, if it is needed and is missing, then you would definately have the problem you describe, the best thing is to get an exploded drawing of that particular model of Richey Headset, would be the best thing to help you. From what you have described, I don't think you need to cut the steerer any more.

 

[greenmark]

No, there is not stickiness when I turn it. Even when it is very stiff to turn there is no indexing

 

[greenmark]

Greenmark, it sounds to me as though there could be a spacer missing (I am refering to a very thin spacer about .5mm thick), perhaps one that sits between the top cartridges bearing and the top cover cup, some headsets use this, if it is needed and is missing, then you would definately have the problem you describe, the best thing is to get an exploded drawing of that particular model of Richey Headset, would be the best thing to help you. From what you have described, I don't think you need to cut the steerer any more.

I had a look at the headset model - it's a Ritchey Logic Comp. The specs say they have small upper cartridge bearings and oversize lower cartridge bearings. Though they don't seem to have a spacer as you mention, I think maybe I might have put the bearings in the wrong order when assembling the bike. I'll be busy taking it all apart and putting it back together again now...

 

[fossyant]

Hold on.......you only lightly tighten the top allen bolt, until it stops 'rattling' - if that's not working you may be missing a component - or possibly the bearings or spacers/races aren't fitting together properly. Don't forget the top bolt is just to pre-load the bearings - the stem takes the strain when done up.

 

[MartinC]

Check that the top cap isn't meeting the steerer tube before it's preloaded the bearings. It needs to be able to go inside the top spacer (or stem if there isn't one) a few mm or more without meeting the steerer tube. You can check this by temporarily putting an extra spacer above the stem - if this cures the problem either leave it there or cut a few mm off the steerer. You can get some idea of how much clearance the top cap needs by trying it in a spacer whist it's off the bike.

 

[greenmark]

Thanks for people's comments so far… just to update...

MartinC: yes, there is plenty of room between the top cap and the top of the steerer.

fossyant: Yes - that is what I have been doing. I first loosen the stem bolts and the bolt to the cable hanger (because the cable hanger for the cantilever brakes is fixed around the steerer tube as a type of spacer). That way stem, spacers and cable hanger can move freely along the steerer tube. I preload the top bolt until when I hold the brake and rock the bike then there is no play in the headset - ie no rattling.

I tighten the stem and cable hanger bolts so everything is fixed. However, at this stage turning the handlebars is very difficult - I have to actively steer the handlebars rather than rely on my balance - so I constantly feel I am slightly out of balance and have to adjust my steering, which involves a fair bit of weaving around. I cannot pick lines on downhills.

The difference between preloading the top bolt so that it is rattling and so that it is stuck solid is less than 1/10th of a full turn. I've managed to get the sweet spot between rattling and stuck solid only once and that lasted me one day of riding, but it eventually started rattling again and I've never been able to get it right again.

I've checked and all the headset components are there and they are all in the correct order. There are no missing internal washers.

 

[GilesM]

Greenmark, difficult to think what the problem is without seeing it, but somewhere two bits of the headset must be making contact where they shouldn't be, the only contact between the frame fixed cups and the fork fixed cups should be the bearings. Sorry I can't help more.