HGVs in towns and cities

[Origamist]

I think that the dondares and anti hgv morons of this world would love it if there was no HGV drivers on this forum, then they could perhaps get away with some of the ridiculous and frankly outrageous claims and ideas that they make.

Quite the opposite - I am glad there are HGV drivers on this forum.

 

[BentMikey]

I think it's very interesting and great that there are HGV drivers on here. The wide range of attitudes are quite telling, too. I'll point out Rhythm Thief as a great example, IMO. Respect.

 

[BentMikey]

Quote from Buffalo Bill:

However, one of the things that seemed to have been a little over-looked in recent weeks is that not all of the cyclists killed by lorries have been near a junction. At least 2 of the deaths have taken place where both the cyclist and the lorry were going straight ahead, ie the cyclist was run over from behind, and most definitely not in the blind-spot.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/bike-show-special-on-the-lorrycyclist-problem#comment

According to Lee et all, this is still the fault of the cyclist.

 

[dondare]

Define the age of a child because most children I see ride on the pavement.I'm still waiting for the day I see a 12yr old cycling down Baker Street.

I don't cycle down Baker Street but I see plenty of children riding bikes on the road as well as the pavement on my commute, which takes in Camden and Barnet. It's quite clear they haven't honed their survival skills yet and this is something that every driver needs to take into account unless they don't mind killing the odd child. What I'm thinking of is kids cycling to and from school which is something that should be encouraged, by making the roads safer for example.

The first bit in bold you are joking surely?

No joke. First the vehicle on the left moves out, giving them more room. Then the cab swings abruptly across in front, forcing them to stop. Then the rear wheels cut across squashing them flat. It's that last bit in particular that they're not expecting.

Not road tax, it's VED and I don't buy it.

Yes I know it's called VED now, but it's still most widely known as Road Tax. And I suppose it's paid for by the lorry owner rather than the driver, but the point is still the same.

As for your last sentance refer back the cyclist that rides like a twat. (I can only drive for other people so much)

I haven't used that expression (although I could about many cyclists that I see). I have pointed out that anyone is permitted to ride a bike on the roads without having to pass a test, and that among the general population you will find every kind of incompetence. Not just twattishness, but also physical and mental disability. You would like to keep all but the most able, alert, skilled and prescient cyclists off the road so that lorry drivers have less chance of killing someone that they can't see. I would like to keep the most dangerous vehicle off the road so that they're safe for everybody.

What's actually going to happen is that we'll all go on using them and cyclists will continue getting squashed.

 

[dondare]

Is this putting it better?
Anyone is permitted to ride a bike on the roads without having to pass a test, and that among the general population you will find every kind of incompetence, up to and including physical and mental disability.

However, although my argument is that you simply can't expect all cyclists to be competent and experienced enough to avoid potentially dangerous situations, and your argument seems to be that is that case they're twats and it's their own look-out if they die, whenever I hear about a lorry killing a cyclist the victim does not seem to fall into the incompetent/inexperienced/twat category. They just were in the wrong place: that is where driver couldn't see them. It would seem that getting rid of that blind spot (or vehicles with it) would save lives in future more surely than insisting on a higher standard of cyclist.

 

[dondare]

When drivers go out they need to care about all other road-users, even those who's road skills are poor. In fact they need to take the greatest amount of care with people who's road skills are poor. Roads should be safe and if drivers were patient they could be.
Except for the blind-spot thing of course. Get rid of the lorry driver's blind-spot and then the roads could be safe.
Incidently, my own road skills are exemplary; I'm not concerned on my own behalf. I'm just fed up with hearing about lorries killing cyclists.

 

[BentMikey]

Incidently, my own road skills are exemplary

This bit makes you sound like Lee, IMO. They may or may not be good, but it's usually the terrible road users that think this sort of thing. I think every one of us on here have plenty to learn about traffic skills, including myself.

 

[Origamist]

TfL inaction turning lorries into scapegoats and putting cyclists at risk:

http://www.fta.co.uk/news/item/tfl-...s-into-scapegoats-and-putting-cyclists-at-ris

 

[dondare]

I certainly believe that it's true that many very poor drivers believe themselves to be "top guns", whether it's also true of cyclists I don't know.
For myself I do have decades of experience cycling in London and elsewhere, I take inordinant care to obey the law and exercise patience if the way ahead is blocked either by muppets or HGVs. I can honestly say that if all cyclists rode exactly like me then you'd never again hear any of the most common criticisms of cyclist's behaviour and probably hear far less about cyclists getting killed in accidents, too. (I'm not claiming to be a better, faster or more skillful cyclist than anyone else on this forum, though.)

 

[Origamist]

Let's hope the Panorama doc gets commissioned.

"As for the programme itself, it's not to be happening, though the producer who wants to make it was resurrecting the research this year, having not come up with enough last year, and so I think we can hope there is a long-term interest in the thing being made."

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread11587.html

 

[Origamist]

I'll pop along to this and report back.



London Borough of Southwark
Monday 3rd November 2008
Time: 7am - 11am
Location: St Georges Road close to the junction of West Square

Key Messages
HGV Drivers: Regular and correct mirror use, beware cyclists are
vulnerable road users and may take you by surprise.
Cyclists: HGV's have large blind spots, look to make eye contact with
the drivers, avoid cycling down the inside of large vehicles.

Cyclists to be made aware of the vulnerability of pedestrians and the
dangers of riding on the pavement.

Other
A Dr Bike will be taking place throughout the event
The campaign will be supported by banners and education materials which
will be handed out on the day.
We have emailed all of our adult cyclist trainees notifying them of the
event.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I'll pop along to this and report back.



London Borough of Southwark
Monday 3rd November 2008
Time: 7am - 11am
Location: St Georges Road close to the junction of West Square

Key Messages
HGV Drivers: Regular and correct mirror use, beware cyclists are
vulnerable road users and may take you by surprise.
Cyclists: HGV's have large blind spots, look to make eye contact with
the drivers, avoid cycling down the inside of large vehicles.

Cyclists to be made aware of the vulnerability of pedestrians and the
dangers of riding on the pavement.

Other
A Dr Bike will be taking place throughout the event
The campaign will be supported by banners and education materials which
will be handed out on the day.
We have emailed all of our adult cyclist trainees notifying them of the
event.

Blimey. The whole thread condensed into one single post.

 

[Origamist]

I'll pop along to this and report back.



London Borough of Southwark
Monday 3rd November 2008
Time: 7am - 11am
Location: St Georges Road close to the junction of West Square

Key Messages
HGV Drivers: Regular and correct mirror use, beware cyclists are
vulnerable road users and may take you by surprise.
Cyclists: HGV's have large blind spots, look to make eye contact with
the drivers, avoid cycling down the inside of large vehicles.

Cyclists to be made aware of the vulnerability of pedestrians and the
dangers of riding on the pavement.

Other
A Dr Bike will be taking place throughout the event
The campaign will be supported by banners and education materials which
will be handed out on the day.
We have emailed all of our adult cyclist trainees notifying them of the
event.

I went along this morning. The Met were stopping cyclists (and HGVs, but I didn't see any of the latter get pulled over) and explaining to them about the recent cluster of fatalities involving HGVs and cyclists. I talked to an Inspector from the Traffic OCU and he said 8 cyclists had been killed by a left turning HGV and one by a left turning bus (however, he was a bit vague on the last collision) so far this year. I also chatted to a principal road safety officer who said that there had been film crews to the event and he was pleased that the profile of the problem was being raised.

There was an opprotunity to get into a tipper truck and check the visibility from the cab (it had 3 nearside mirrors). I saw one young woman who seemed stunned that she could not be seen if she was to the front left of the cab.

They were giving away a TFL sponsored mini-book: "Ignorant Cyclists" / "Ingnorant Lorry Drviers". It's short but to the point. They also dished out a Hi Viz rucksack cover. I took a few pics of the event and will post them this evening.

It would be good if more cyclists had access to this kind of event. St Georges road is probably not the ideal location, but I guess it's a compromise.

 

[Origamist]

Cycle training for Lambeth lorry drivers

Lorry and bus drivers working for a Lambeth Council are receiving training sessions in cycling road safety in a bid to prevent collisions involving cyclists and HGVs.

Drivers of refuse vehicles, school buses and other HGVs run by Lambeth are receiving classroom and practical on-road cycle training to highlight the dangers posed to cyclists caught in lorries’ blind spots.
The council is also installing signs on its lorries and buses warning of the danger of cycling of their inside.

Lorry drivers out on the road on bikes
The training, in conjunction with Cycle Training UK, involves drivers riding bikes themselves to give them greater understanding about cycling.
Lambeth is the only London borough to have so far adopted these kinds of measures. A cyclist was killed in Streatham in April 2008 as a result of a collision with a truck.

Cllr Sally Prentice, Lambeth Council cabinet member for Environment, said: “London has the potential to be a world-class cycling city. We hope other organisations that employ HGV drivers follow our lead on this and run similar training schemes so we can make London a safer place for cyclists. The council is happy to work with companies to promote these initiatives.”

"We hope other employers follow the example"
Charlie Lloyd of London Cycling Campaign, a former lorry driver, said, "LCC has been lobbying for measures such as these for a long time, and we're very pleased one borough has followed our advice."
"Improving driver awareness can save lives. We hope other boroughs and employers follow the example of Lambeth Council."

http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=1253

 

[Rhythm Thief]

It doesn't amtter now anyway. If my experience of looking for a job is anything to go by, soon there'll be no lorries left.