Hmm.. No "Black Lives Matter" thread?

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Well this white guy is happy to listen that black guy.
I wouldn't want to play the white saviour in this one.
Our life experience differs.
I'm happy to listen to him and his opinions too.

But im also interested in all the other voices that tell me about other stories and experiences too.

Not all of them are so comforting, or leave me thinking.

"Ah thats fine, there's no problem here after all"

Oh and "white saviours" are people who go to other peoples countries and try to patronise them by telling them how to run their lives--Often while in fact trying to extract some benefit for themselves - I'm glad you're not intending to do that :okay:
 
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dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
There are far higher numbers of white people murdered by other white people than are murdered by the cops.
totally not relevant, and also if 89.5% of the black people is murdered by their own then that tells something, it's not like they all woke up some day and tought ''yeah lets murder my black neighbour just for fun and giggles'' First off it wont be that much obsessed with skin color second off their are mostly years of criminal behavior in front of it. And now we talk about numbers have you any idea how many cops are killed during their job? if so you don't know why not? Maybe because the media does't find that interesting, i mean it could add something to the discussion, like context and maybe even scarier, a logical reason why they use the methods to restrain a suspect.
Maybe we could start to address these problems of criminality in white people, by getting the cops to kneel on a lot more white necks, and do more general brutalusing and random harassment of anyone who 'looks a bit white'
Just because there is'nt a youtube/twitter/etc. called ''white guys get de dick of the law in their necks too'' does'nt mean it does'nt happen. it an restraining technique not more, not less.
Anyone, non white could assist in all this, by joining in with the general suspicion, prejudice and hostility, about 'them' the white people.
The revenge system all in line with the white hating marxism trained founders of black live matters, how did you came up with the idea? looked at the documentary's over South Africa where they rape white babies and kill white farmers for the sake of the revenge?


Look the other way, when it happens to the random white people, cos I mean they were probs up to no good, and best to kill them anyway even if they're cuffed, cos one less white person - less trouble overall isn't it??
Jup lets exploit, the few examples(few example in comparision of the total daily incidents where police is requirered) of police brutality to the max, forget about context forget about lets see, the Police might actually after bad people indeed lets fort get all that and pretend those filthy cops are paid to catch criminals on basis of their skin color first.. lets also not mention the black cops.. context who needs it?


You‘ve replayed this argument several time with varying stats, but failed to consider the impact of poverty and inequality on murder rates. There are quite a few research papers out there, some even find that your more likely to be a murderer if you’re poor and white than poor and black! This article sits somewhere in the middle, critiques the various statistic approaches and finds that racial discrepancies are equal to within a margin of error once poverty is considered.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0049089X05000189
Everyone seemed butthurt at me because i dare to lay the connection between violent rap music, poverty and criminality. So thanks for pointing out what i said weeks before, i can't really comment on that research because what your posting is a summary, that's is particularly vague about formula's and stuff so it is'nt clear how they got to the concussion that racial discrepancies are equal if poverty is considered. However that is not so important as i never claimed is was only black poeple but mostly black people and indeed, if you would be able to tackle poverty most research suggest you would be able to tackle at least part of criminality. But poverty is no longer the issue because if you create an unequal balance, at some point you get a counter balance, i don't think the average gangster worries about money, at the cost of a significant shorter life, continuously being haunted either by police or other gangs they solved their poverty issue.
So if the us would miraculously change the system of school funding so low-income area's are no longer disadvantaged, and the same with acces to healthcare and so on the next challenge is how to dismantle all those gangs that got an comfortable position in all those years?

So all blm have to do is stop being poor and disadvantaged and it’s gravy all the way. :whistle:

You might also like to read Ghettoside by Jill Leovy (you won’t) which looks at the history and social background to black on black violence. One of the key points that that even justice for victims is rigged; the US judicial system spends less investigative effort on pursuing the perpetrators of black-on-black murders.

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/100077/ghettoside-by-jill-leovy/
The system is rigged much more on the bottom, if you happen to be born in a poor area you have less chances of succes in life, or if you have had succes but become very ill you can get one off if not the best healthcare in the world but the chances are you loose everything you own aswell due to the enourmous cost of that healthcare.
Justice for victims, you can't have justice as long as you have area's like ghetto's are, i mean as long ad they don't find a way of managing that, there won't be justice.
But changing the system to treat everyone fair won't solve the ghetto problem, it has become to big now, and that also why i say they need to clean their own garden first, only if black people massively reject and stop this violence steps forward will really make and difference, otherwise sadly laws giving them equal treatment will mean nothing by the laws ruled on the streets. And this is massively easier said than done, a rapper wanting to clean up his derelict neighborhood(by buying and restoring houses etc.) was shot a few years ago, by the very same guys that used to be his friends.. revenue protection..
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
totally not relevant, and also if 89.5% of the black people is murdered by their own then that tells something, it's not like they all woke up some day and tought ''yeah lets murder my black neighbour just for fun and giggles'' First off it wont be that much obsessed with skin color second off their are mostly years of criminal behavior in front of it. And now we talk about numbers have you any idea how many cops are killed during their job? if so you don't know why not? Maybe because the media does't find that interesting, i mean it could add something to the discussion, like context and maybe even scarier, a logical reason why they use the methods to restrain a suspect.

Just because there is'nt a youtube/twitter/etc. called ''white guys get de dick of the law in their necks too'' does'nt mean it does'nt happen. it an restraining technique not more, not less.

The revenge system all in line with the white hating marxism trained founders of black live matters, how did you came up with the idea? looked at the documentary's over South Africa where they rape white babies and kill white farmers for the sake of the revenge?



Jup lets exploit, the few examples(few example in comparision of the total daily incidents where police is requirered) of police brutality to the max, forget about context forget about lets see, the Police might actually after bad people indeed lets fort get all that and pretend those filthy cops are paid to catch criminals on basis of their skin color first.. lets also not mention the black cops.. context who needs it?



Everyone seemed butthurt at me because i dare to lay the connection between violent rap music, poverty and criminality. So thanks for pointing out what i said weeks before, i can't really comment on that research because what your posting is a summary, that's is particularly vague about formula's and stuff so it is'nt clear how they got to the concussion that racial discrepancies are equal if poverty is considered. However that is not so important as i never claimed is was only black poeple but mostly black people and indeed, if you would be able to tackle poverty most research suggest you would be able to tackle at least part of criminality. But poverty is no longer the issue because if you create an unequal balance, at some point you get a counter balance, i don't think the average gangster worries about money, at the cost of a significant shorter life, continuously being haunted either by police or other gangs they solved their poverty issue.
So if the us would miraculously change the system of school funding so low-income area's are no longer disadvantaged, and the same with acces to healthcare and so on the next challenge is how to dismantle all those gangs that got an comfortable position in all those years?



The system is rigged much more on the bottom, if you happen to be born in a poor area you have less chances of succes in life, or if you have had succes but become very ill you can get one off if not the best healthcare in the world but the chances are you loose everything you own aswell due to the enourmous cost of that healthcare.
Justice for victims, you can't have justice as long as you have area's like ghetto's are, i mean as long ad they don't find a way of managing that, there won't be justice.
But changing the system to treat everyone fair won't solve the ghetto problem, it has become to big now, and that also why i say they need to clean their own garden first, only if black people massively reject and stop this violence steps forward will really make and difference, otherwise sadly laws giving them equal treatment will mean nothing by the laws ruled on the streets. And this is massively easier said than done, a rapper wanting to clean up his derelict neighborhood(by buying and restoring houses etc.) was shot a few years ago, by the very same guys that used to be his friends.. revenue protection..
Nonsense. Not an insult, but the actual dictionary definition.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
There's all sorts of ironies and metaphors when extraordinarily wealthy white people, stand in front of their enormous white house and point guns at unarmed protestors, at least one of which is wearing a t-shirt saying "don't shoot", as they walk by.
this is what they say ''We were told that we would be killed, our home burned and our dog killed. We were all alone facing an angry mob. '' also like all msm you forgot to mention those ''peacefull'' protestors where on private property. so that's is'nt just walking by, as the clip shows they walk back trough the gate with a private property sign. You know the one they would be walking past without opening if they would just be walking by... but hey who needs the full story when you can report bullshit instead..
 

classic33

Legendary Member
totally not relevant, and also if 89.5% of the black people is murdered by their own then that tells something, it's not like they all woke up some day and tought ''yeah lets murder my black neighbour just for fun and giggles'' First off it wont be that much obsessed with skin color second off their are mostly years of criminal behavior in front of it. And now we talk about numbers have you any idea [B[how many cops are killed during their job? [/B]if so you don't know why not? Maybe because the media does't find that interesting, i mean it could add something to the discussion, like context and maybe even scarier, a logical reason why they use the methods to restrain a suspect.

Just because there is'nt a youtube/twitter/etc. called ''white guys get de dick of the law in their necks too'' does'nt mean it does'nt happen. it an restraining technique not more, not less.

The revenge system all in line with the white hating marxism trained founders of black live matters, how did you came up with the idea? looked at the documentary's over South Africa where they rape white babies and kill white farmers for the sake of the revenge?



Jup lets exploit, the few examples(few example in comparision of the total daily incidents where police is requirered) of police brutality to the max, forget about context forget about lets see, the Police might actually after bad people indeed lets fort get all that and pretend those filthy cops are paid to catch criminals on basis of their skin color first.. lets also not mention the black cops.. context who needs it?



Everyone seemed butthurt at me because i dare to lay the connection between violent rap music, poverty and criminality. So thanks for pointing out what i said weeks before, i can't really comment on that research because what your posting is a summary, that's is particularly vague about formula's and stuff so it is'nt clear how they got to the concussion that racial discrepancies are equal if poverty is considered. However that is not so important as i never claimed is was only black poeple but mostly black people and indeed, if you would be able to tackle poverty most research suggest you would be able to tackle at least part of criminality. But poverty is no longer the issue because if you create an unequal balance, at some point you get a counter balance, i don't think the average gangster worries about money, at the cost of a significant shorter life, continuously being haunted either by police or other gangs they solved their poverty issue.
So if the us would miraculously change the system of school funding so low-income area's are no longer disadvantaged, and the same with acces to healthcare and so on the next challenge is how to dismantle all those gangs that got an comfortable position in all those years?



The system is rigged much more on the bottom, if you happen to be born in a poor area you have less chances of succes in life, or if you have had succes but become very ill you can get one off if not the best healthcare in the world but the chances are you loose everything you own aswell due to the enourmous cost of that healthcare.
Justice for victims, you can't have justice as long as you have area's like ghetto's are, i mean as long ad they don't find a way of managing that, there won't be justice.
But changing the system to treat everyone fair won't solve the ghetto problem, it has become to big now, and that also why i say they need to clean their own garden first, only if black people massively reject and stop this violence steps forward will really make and difference, otherwise sadly laws giving them equal treatment will mean nothing by the laws ruled on the streets. And this is massively easier said than done, a rapper wanting to clean up his derelict neighborhood(by buying and restoring houses etc.) was shot a few years ago, by the very same guys that used to be his friends.. revenue protection..
Regarding the piece in bold
"According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019. Of these, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 41 officers died in accidents."
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-ofStates

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty_in_the_United_States

"The most common cause of police related fatalities in England and Wales in this period, financial year 2018/19, were other deaths following police contact, at 152 incidents. In this period, there were three fatal shootings in total."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/319287/deaths-during-or-following-police-contact-causes-england-and-wales/
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
this is what they say ''We were told that we would be killed, our home burned and our dog killed. We were all alone facing an angry mob. '' also like all msm you forgot to mention those ''peacefull'' protestors where on private property. so that's is'nt just walking by, as the clip shows they walk back trough the gate with a private property sign. You know the one they would be walking past without opening if they would just be walking by... but hey who needs the full story when you can report bullshit instead..
From the same article that you linked
According to Saint Louis University Lawyer John Amman, their actions could possibly be classified as assault by putting protesters in fear of their safety.

People have a right to threaten force if they are threatened, Amman said. However, if a group of protesters is walking by a home and not doing anything to the homeowners specifically, then they don’t have the right to threaten lethal force without an imminent threat.
So you quoted selectively. No link in that article shows what you describe.

If you want to see a threatening “protest“, here’s a link that works..

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/michigan-gunmen-statehouse-coronavirus-protests-trump-working-people-a9494336.html
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
From the same article that you linked

So you quoted selectively. No link in that article shows what you describe.

If you want to see a threatening “protest“, here’s a link that works..

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/michigan-gunmen-statehouse-coronavirus-protests-trump-working-people-a9494336.html
And what exactly would you call taking one part of the article that suits your blah blah better? Reading is'nt your strongest point either from the same article: ''“A mob of at least 100 smashed through the historic wrought iron gates of Portland Place, destroying them, rushed towards my home where my family was having dinner outside and put us in fear of our lives. This is all private property. There are no public sidewalks or public streets. We were told that we would be killed, our home burned and our dog killed. We were all alone facing an angry mob.” hey do you read that? the thing you claimed was not in the article... all of it.
Which also contradicts that's lawyers comments because they where on private land, they opened an gate, vandalised it even according to the owner, that alone can be seen as an ''imminent threat'' if the lawyer is correct, which is questionable considering he talks about passing by when that's clearly not the case.
 

MntnMan62

Well-Known Member
Location
Northern NJ
And what exactly would you call taking one part of the article that suits your blah blah better? Reading is'nt your strongest point either from the same article: ''“A mob of at least 100 smashed through the historic wrought iron gates of Portland Place, destroying them, rushed towards my home where my family was having dinner outside and put us in fear of our lives. This is all private property. There are no public sidewalks or public streets. We were told that we would be killed, our home burned and our dog killed. We were all alone facing an angry mob.” hey do you read that? the thing you claimed was not in the article... all of it.
Which also contradicts that's lawyers comments because they where on private land, they opened an gate, vandalised it even according to the owner, that alone can be seen as an ''imminent threat'' if the lawyer is correct, which is questionable considering he talks about passing by when that's clearly not the case.
That little bit there sort of detracts from everything the lawyers claimed. They are personal injury attorneys. I'm not saying they are but there is more than just a small likelihood that they could be lying so all their clients don't go running for the hills and they are left with a giant mortage on that palace with no income to pay it. Just sayin'.
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
And what exactly would you call taking one part of the article that suits your blah blah better? Reading is'nt your strongest point either from the same article: ''“A mob of at least 100 smashed through the historic wrought iron gates of Portland Place, destroying them, rushed towards my home where my family was having dinner outside and put us in fear of our lives. This is all private property. There are no public sidewalks or public streets. We were told that we would be killed, our home burned and our dog killed. We were all alone facing an angry mob.” hey do you read that? the thing you claimed was not in the article... all of it.
Which also contradicts that's lawyers comments because they where on private land, they opened an gate, vandalised it even according to the owner, that alone can be seen as an ''imminent threat'' if the lawyer is correct, which is questionable considering he talks about passing by when that's clearly not the case.
You were complaining up thread about black gangs killing people they felt were a threat to their way of life, "revenue protection" was the term you used. Your take on this incident seems a little different.
You also comment on the futility of laws which would give equal treatment and how the system is grossly unfair to those born at the bottom. You accept the inequality, I can't believe you don't see the correlation between that and violence nor can I understand your determination not to address it.
You see, or at least claim to, the inequality and the poverty then try to blame that on a music genre which grew as a result of that inequality and poverty. If black on black crime is a result of "years of criminality" I assume you mean it goes back before rap, so what do you think is the original cause?
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
And what exactly would you call taking one part of the article that suits your blah blah better? Reading is'nt your strongest point either from the same article: ''“A mob of at least 100 smashed through the historic wrought iron gates of Portland Place, destroying them, rushed towards my home where my family was having dinner outside and put us in fear of our lives. This is all private property. There are no public sidewalks or public streets. We were told that we would be killed, our home burned and our dog killed. We were all alone facing an angry mob.” hey do you read that? the thing you claimed was not in the article... all of it.
Which also contradicts that's lawyers comments because they where on private land, they opened an gate, vandalised it even according to the owner, that alone can be seen as an ''imminent threat'' if the lawyer is correct, which is questionable considering he talks about passing by when that's clearly not the case.
🤷‍♂️
I read it. There’s no evidence that what they claim is true. My English comprehension is pretty good actually.

Here are two separate clips of the incident. The protestors appear to be on a public sidewalk and very clearly avoid stepping over the threshold onto private property. There is no gate. There is no fence. There is no sign. There is no evidence of threat, with some protestors encouraging others to move on.

On a number of occasions our two protagonists point their weapons towards each other. They‘re a danger to themselves and others.

Could you please link to a clip that shows what you they claim and you choose to believe?

View: https://twitter.com/xshularx/status/1277398234055483393?s=20


View: https://twitter.com/toledomccormick/status/1277422492706058241?s=20


Or you could just post some more word-curry.
 
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mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
totally not relevant, and also if 89.5% of the black people is murdered by their own then that tells something, it's not like they all woke up some day and tought ''yeah lets murder my black neighbour just for fun and giggles'' First off it wont be that much obsessed with skin color second off their are mostly years of criminal behavior in front of it. And now we talk about numbers have you any idea how many cops are killed during their job? if so you don't know why not? Maybe because the media does't find that interesting, i mean it could add something to the discussion, like context and maybe even scarier, a logical reason why they use the methods to restrain a suspect.

Just because there is'nt a youtube/twitter/etc. called ''white guys get de dick of the law in their necks too'' does'nt mean it does'nt happen. it an restraining technique not more, not less.

The revenge system all in line with the white hating marxism trained founders of black live matters, how did you came up with the idea? looked at the documentary's over South Africa where they rape white babies and kill white farmers for the sake of the revenge?



Jup lets exploit, the few examples(few example in comparision of the total daily incidents where police is requirered) of police brutality to the max, forget about context forget about lets see, the Police might actually after bad people indeed lets fort get all that and pretend those filthy cops are paid to catch criminals on basis of their skin color first.. lets also not mention the black cops.. context who needs it?



Everyone seemed butthurt at me because i dare to lay the connection between violent rap music, poverty and criminality. So thanks for pointing out what i said weeks before, i can't really comment on that research because what your posting is a summary, that's is particularly vague about formula's and stuff so it is'nt clear how they got to the concussion that racial discrepancies are equal if poverty is considered. However that is not so important as i never claimed is was only black poeple but mostly black people and indeed, if you would be able to tackle poverty most research suggest you would be able to tackle at least part of criminality. But poverty is no longer the issue because if you create an unequal balance, at some point you get a counter balance, i don't think the average gangster worries about money, at the cost of a significant shorter life, continuously being haunted either by police or other gangs they solved their poverty issue.
So if the us would miraculously change the system of school funding so low-income area's are no longer disadvantaged, and the same with acces to healthcare and so on the next challenge is how to dismantle all those gangs that got an comfortable position in all those years?



The system is rigged much more on the bottom, if you happen to be born in a poor area you have less chances of succes in life, or if you have had succes but become very ill you can get one off if not the best healthcare in the world but the chances are you loose everything you own aswell due to the enourmous cost of that healthcare.
Justice for victims, you can't have justice as long as you have area's like ghetto's are, i mean as long ad they don't find a way of managing that, there won't be justice.
But changing the system to treat everyone fair won't solve the ghetto problem, it has become to big now, and that also why i say they need to clean their own garden first, only if black people massively reject and stop this violence steps forward will really make and difference, otherwise sadly laws giving them equal treatment will mean nothing by the laws ruled on the streets. And this is massively easier said than done, a rapper wanting to clean up his derelict neighborhood(by buying and restoring houses etc.) was shot a few years ago, by the very same guys that used to be his friends.. revenue protection..
So it's relevant that black people get murdered by black people, but not relevant that white people get murdered by white people ??

I don't think you can have it both ways.

Yes policing is a difficult job.

It has to be done by consent though.

Unless you do want a totalitarian state, such as is found in some parts of the world.

Rule by force, and the constant threat of violence?

As was, under apartheid in South Africa?
I'm hoping that's not what you are after.

Yes we all acknowledge police brutality is meted out to white people to, lack of training, or a police culture that says violence is OK, or desirable even??


You dont make policing any easier by making the people you are trying to police feel they will be treated unjustly, or worse.

On the radio today the chief of police here was saying they wanted to rebuild a police force that is properly inclusive.

So that means they recognise they're not there yet.

You can find nasty videos of people doing nasty things, all over the Internet, to support your arguments I'm sure.

Personally I don't go there.
I wouldn't watch the George Floyd film or any if it. It doesn't help to watch things.

But still we know these things happen.

I know violence exists, some humans have violent tendencies, which need to be controlled, stopped altogether preferably.
That needs to be worked at by all of us.

I know racism, and many other life diminishing isms exist.

I've lived in a sexist world all my life, where women have fewer rights, and are afforded less respect than men, its getting better in some ways, but there is still along way to go - no room for complacency.

Same with racism.

Social disadvantage, and poverty, tend to attract more criminality.

Not to everyone, but the desperation borne of it tends to breed and escalate it.

So at least you've identified that as a contributory factor.

Having to lift oneself above poverty and racism is an extra effort.

Of course some people manage it, but as has been said many times before, we are not all starting from the same place, with the same advantages are we??

'White male' is still the default, advantaged bias, to which nearly all of our societies are orientated.
How is that OK??

Power doesn't give up its advantages easily, does it?

This unfairness is changing, to more egalitarian ways of thinking in some places, but there is resistance too - hence the nasy likes of trump, and his hate spreading, divisive, populist agenda.

And as has been pointed out, rap music which as it happens contains no more violence or misogyny in it than many other contempory music genres, is a product, not a cause of the culture it reflects.


Nonsense. Not an insult, but the actual dictionary definition.
But still we persist eh?

It almost becomes like a word search puzzle though.

Most distracting :wacko:
 
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mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
That's an inconvenient truth for some people.
It's not an inconvenient 'truth' it's one person's opinion of many.

Has no more nor less weight than any other opinions.

Some of the arguments are contradictory even, but it's a complicated subject, so it's not always easy to get the points across clearly.
 
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