Holding cars up...

[theclaud]

have an ex-wife there. (I should say that this is not a court injunction, but one enacted by the present and for all time Mrs. DZ)

This is going to be tricky, and a lot more work than I imagined. I thought I might just have to go and dismantle a bit of cycling infrastructure whilst swearing a lot. I'll need to consult the rulebook of the Lesbian Separatist Collective.

 

[mr_hippo]

I think this thread has outlived its usefullness. Now there were two ducks in front of a duck, two ducks ...

 

[col]

Judo.

And he didn't mention it if you disagreed with him, Col. I've told you a million times - do not exaggerate!

Hello Goo, Iv had debates with him where he did exactly that, no exaggeration.

 

[400bhp]

I think attitudes changed with regard to drink driving, are changing with regard to speeding, and crucially have changed out of sight in those parts of London where cyclists predominate. I'm suggesting that while individuals vary, the body politic of driving is moving with the times and can be moved further.

As for the traffic police/speed camera dichotomy - I'm not at all impressed by the press campaigns and people like Safespeed. In the end people don't like being caught, and are, in the main, prepared to modify their behaviour to reduce the chances of being caught. The irony is that while helmet cams rightly report on bad behaviour in London, the respect shown to cyclists has increased dramatically, with buses leading the way, but private cars following on close behind. I say irony, because, actually, all political movements tend to flourish when events are already going their way (see Russian revolution and rise in industrial wages prior etc., etc., etc.....). My cause and effect thing above was a bit simplistic - cause and effect are intermingled, with greater confidence within the body politic of cycling leading to greater expectations and assertiveness, which, in turn, results in better driver behaviour.

Put another way - nothing has ever been gained for cycling, or any other cause, by just hoping for it. People like Maggers and BM are engendering a hesitation within the body politic of driving, and that hesitation is compounded by the rise in the number of cyclists in my part of the world. Whether BRSU is ploughing a lonely furrow in Swindon is, perhaps, beside the point. Quite apart from nobody caring about Swindon, the town, 'blessed' with a zillion cycle paths is not enjoying the cycling revolution (I put it no less strongly than that) that is happening in London. Swindon's drivers have no real need to think (the council having switched off its Gatsos) and will continue to exhibit the untermensch behaviour that BRSU records.

So helmet cameras are part of a shift of attitude that is binary. We gain in confidence and our expectations rise on the back of that confidence. Motorists lose the sense of impunity they've enjoyed hitherto. It's patchwork, it's partial, but that's the nature of things. Overall I remain both optimistic in general, and gain some of that optimism from Maggers' and BM's efforts.

Good post. I haven't cycled in London, nor driven there for over 3 years, but it does seem that the popularity in London (safety in numbers) means that the roads are perhaps safer due to motorists being more aware, and perhaps, more importantly, expecting to see as many cyclists as cars.

Helmet cames are more effect than cause though (which is what I think you were intimating).

Isn't it nice when we all get on

 

[400bhp]

I think this thread has outlived its usefullness. Now there were two ducks in front of a duck, two ducks ...

Arguably, no thread has a use.

 

[400bhp]

the question is this - does it change their driving? Speed cameras excite all kinds of antipathy, up to and including vandalism. The Mail tells us that they are part of a 'war on motorists'. But.........speeds on camera'd roads decline. And speeding is less acceptable. I accept that people still speed and that there's a great deal of hypocrisy on this subject, but I believe that, generally, people are beginning to behave a little better because the argument has been 'taken to them' by the speed camera

There's an interesting variant on this. Villagers measuring speeds through their high streets. Nobody gets upset about it, other than the police who fear a confrontation - and it does reduce speeds for a while. Now the DfT is, apparently, going to devolve speed limits to highways authorities to allow more flexibility. My suspicion is that this will reduce more speed limits than it will increase. We'll have a popularly sanctioned improvement in driving.

I don't have a camera, but I do find that it is possible to get drivers to modify their behaviour, and for the better.

I have to take issue at this. There are a lot of motorists who don't like this, which can be evidenced on certain car forums I have frequented and chatting to others at motoring "get togethers" (track days/races). Most of the dislike comes from the ones holding the speed guns being self appointed police with nothing better to do. Crackles point on the perception cameras can give (a war on motorists argument) is a real one. How much the negatives outweigh the positives is one we can only speculate on (as evidenced in this thread).

On a personal level, I installed CCTV at the back of my house a few years back as I suffered for a while from youths/children throwing stones at my house. The vandalism stopped almost immediately the day I installed it. Indeed, on the first couple of nights it was installed, there were a few stones thrown. I reviewed the vid of the stone throwing and one youth could be clearly heard saying something along the lines of "there's a camera up there".

 

[theclaud]

We should perhaps clarify here, what is the position on through trains? Both Swindon and MK are on the way to other places.

It's useful for trains to go through Swindon, but I don't see the need for them to stop. Enemies of the revolution can simply be hurled into one of those nets that used to catch mailbags. Reduced journey time, and a win-win.

 

[BSRU]

Well said, DZ. Perhaps counter-revolutionaries could be banished to Swindon...

They should really be banished/sent to Coventry, following historical precedent .

 

[Bicycle]

Coventry or Swindon?

That sounds like the very definition of cruel and unusual punishment to me.

Can't these prestoopnicky just join up with their droogs in Siberia or on Goli Otok?

There should be a limit to human cruelty.

 

[theclaud]

Swindon?

That sounds like the very definition of cruel and unusual punishment to me.

You'll probably find you get used to it quite quickly. Annual day trips to Severn Beach will be permitted.

 

[Magikarp]

what camera are you using?

 

[Norm]

Not sure why it has to be a p155ing competition. It's simply about answering the point when the driver assumes that any cyclist has never driven a car and says "what do you know about driving?". Most drivers have never ridden a bike since they were a child, so actually talk from a position of ignorance, whereas most adult cyclists are probably also experienced motorists.

It means nothing, though, and posting that you have xxx miles experience is giving every appearance of bragging about the height you can attain.

I don't care if a driver has never cycled in his life, I will be no less dead if he drives over me. Or, to refer back to your post...

No problem at all, provided they can quote the sources of their supposed wisdom and don't make up their own imaginary highway code rules like most of the motorists featured in video clips do. Even better if they can honestly say that they have sufficient experience of cycling themselves to back up their assertions. (In my case, I have about 400,000 miles of driving experience, including 50,000 miles on a motorcycle.)

What relevance has cycling experience for knowledge of the highway code? What cycling experience does someone need to recognise the presence of an ASZ? Or why a cyclist would use primary? We've had several on this very thread who say that they have cycled for years without moving away from the gutter if they hadn't considered the possibilities.

And, as I said previously, knowledge of the actual Highway Code is more likely in someone who has just passed his test rather than someone with 400,000 miles experience. They haven't had the benefit of the years to forget what was in there, to not keep up to date with the changes, to learn your own interpretations rather than the realities. Not that you have necessarily forgotten anything or not kept up to date, but that's how it appears when you write that you've driven 400,000 miles as if it means something.

IMO.

 

[Buddfox]

It means nothing, though, and posting that you have xxx miles experience is giving every appearance of bragging about the height you can attain.

I don't care if a driver has never cycled in his life, I will be no less dead if he drives over me. Or, to refer back to your post...

What relevance has cycling experience for knowledge of the highway code? What cycling experience does someone need to recognise the presence of an ASZ? Or why a cyclist would use primary? We've had several on this very thread who say that they have cycled for years without moving away from the gutter if they hadn't considered the possibilities.

And, as I said previously, knowledge of the actual Highway Code is more likely in someone who has just passed his test rather than someone with 400,000 miles experience. They haven't had the benefit of the years to forget what was in there, to not keep up to date with the changes, to learn your own interpretations rather than the realities. Not that you have necessarily forgotten anything or not kept up to date, but that's how it appears when you write that you've driven 400,000 miles as if it means something.

IMO.

+1

 

[al78]

It means nothing, though, and posting that you have xxx miles experience is giving every appearance of bragging about the height you can attain.


And, as I said previously, knowledge of the actual Highway Code is more likely in someone who has just passed his test rather than someone with 400,000 miles experience. They haven't had the benefit of the years to forget what was in there, to not keep up to date with the changes, to learn your own interpretations rather than the realities. Not that you have necessarily forgotten anything or not kept up to date, but that's how it appears when you write that you've driven 400,000 miles as if it means something.

IMO.

You really think experience means nothing? If that is the case why are accident rates higher amongst newly qualified drivers on average?

 

[400bhp]

Semantics Al-I don't wish to second guess Norm but he I don't believe he meant the answer to be binary.