How bad is sexual abuse in the cinema industry?

None of us were party to BAFTA's discussions prior to its decision not to cancel the award.

So regardless of whether you think Clarke's skin colour was or wasn't a consideration, either way it's just speculation.
 
OP
Arrowfoot

Arrowfoot

Guru
Well, I agree.

I can't think why they didn't want to run the story and pull the award to the black actor Noel Clarke. Maybe it was because they had already filmed the clip or had the cup engraved?

Or maybe they were just stuck between in the cleft of 'black actor refused award = institutional racism, he is innocent until proven guilty' and 'unable to verify even the claims of misogyny so give the award = not protecting women' ? I think they were in a terrible position.

I worry you are correct though, would their decision have been easier if it was a different actor?
Nothing to do with race or ethnicity. Chairman of BAFTA is a minority, The allegations are coming from across from the race spectrum. Guardian articles in this case gives a lot of background on what transpired.

This is probably the only issue in a long while where there is not a whiff of ethnicity in play, alluded to, insinuated or even perceived in regard to all parties.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
His being black is not a story, ...
I agree with you that it ought not to be, but in this particular thread it could be relevant to BAFTA having a dilemma of not only facing accusations of indifference to abuse but also racism.
So, would you have given the award knowing the allegations or not?
The important word is 'allegations'. In the days of yore, newspapers had to be very careful how they dealt with allegations of this sort as they could be sued. When it comes to social media playing judge and jury the law needs to be updated to cover such accusations. The tendency to call complainants 'victims' on social media means guilt has already been decided in advance, and the presumption of innocence denied.

I know sometimes it is very unlikely that complaints leave much room to believe someone really is innocent (the Saviles of this world), but currently there doesn't seem to be legal redress against false accusations or exaggerated claims it is all to easy to make on media when it is dominated by groupthink, emoting, and sundry divisive agendas.

I think an award should go ahead until a criminal of civil offence has been proven - after which it can always be withdrawn.
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
I agree with you that it ought not to be, but in this particular thread it could be relevant to BAFTA having a dilemma of not only facing accusations of indifference to abuse but also racism.
Exactly my point, but when I made it I was told I was a swivel eyed racist :wacko:

I have also been told though that BAFTA can't be racist as they have someone from a minority in charge! Clearly total nonsense.

The problem with all these debates is that they polarise too quickly. Then when polarised no-one feels able to row back and have a moments thought. I have said at least three times now, BAFTA were totally stuck between two competing, and very live, 'isms. Whatever course of action they took could have been open to criticism, so they took no action, which has been criticised! They were f***ed from the moment this appeared, I feel very sorry for their management team.
 

AuroraSaab

Über Member
To move on from the race issue, I think sexual abuse and exploitation in the film industry, music, modelling, and in sports, will be far wider than many of us realise. It's often kids and young people, who've worked hard from a very young age to get a start in a very competitive career field. They are trying to achieve a dream of professional sports or acting on stage - and they are prey to those who will look for ways to take advantage of that, knowing that a refusal could end their fledgling cycling/acting/modelling career. Safeguarding was non-existent for kids and young people in those industries until very recently.

I'm not sure BAFTA could have cancelled the award on the basis of what was being said at that stage, regardless of his race. Much more seems to have come out since.

It's good to see people finding the courage to speak out though.
 
OP
Arrowfoot

Arrowfoot

Guru
Interesting viewpoint that.

I assume then that you would agree then that the Metropolitan Police can't be misogynistic because their Chief Inspector is a woman?
We should take each issue is separately and not cast the same shadow or aspersion each and everytime.

I am well aware BLM as well as #metoo have drawn opportunists and mischief makers and these do skew judgement. There is also the fear element of not been politically correct. Description such as "frenzy" is not misplaced in such cases.

My initial feel is the same as you that the BAFTA lot froze because of race. I then read the sequence of events in Guardian. I also read BAFTA press release suspending the award and withdrawing Clarke membership.

BAFTA Chair and CEO are claiming ignorance which is BS in view of the scale of alleged incidents and victims and time period. The 2 incidents in the acting school involving more than one person is telling. As the industry peak body they cannot claim ignorance.

My guess is BAFTA had accepted sexual predation as part of their industry and made the mistake in considering him for the award and was hoping to get away with it to save embarrassment.
 
OP
Arrowfoot

Arrowfoot

Guru
Has he been charged yet?
No. There has been a 3rd party Police report and the Police are asking for victims to come forward.
 

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
Amazing how his race is now discussed more than his antics .
Funnily enough, one of his friends may have started that one rolling the day before yesterday, when they threw their opinon into the mix that this was only happening because Clarke is a high achieving black man.

Not offering this as an opinion of my own, just pointing out that this was the first mention of race on the matter, at least that I heard, and that it came from the Clarke camp.
 
OP
Arrowfoot

Arrowfoot

Guru
Funnily enough, one of his friends may have started that one rolling the day before yesterday, when they threw their opinon into the mix that this was only happening because Clarke is a high achieving black man.

Not offering this as an opinion of my own, just pointing out that this was the first mention of race on the matter, at least that I heard, and that it came from the Clarke camp.
The racism claim died down very quickly once the extent of allegations became wide. Pulling out the race card is second nature to some, you can never get rid of these lot.

I am more interested on the role of BAFTA and their claim of ignorance.
 

AuroraSaab

Über Member
I see Clarke, now he has realised the games is well and truly up, seems to be following the usual line of giving an half-assed apology, feigning ignorance of how offensive it was, and taking a period to reflect on his behaviour. As usual, he will be 'seeking professional help'. I suspect it will turn out that he did nothing illegal, but the sheer volume of complaints is surely going to be career ending.
 

Craig the cyclist

Well-Known Member
I am more interested on the role of BAFTA and their claim of ignorance.
Which brings me back to my original point all those hours ago before I got called a racist.

BAFTA were made aware of the allegations a couple of weeks before the awards night, and rightly or wrongly (wrongly it transpires) decided to wait to see if they could get anyone to come forward. It seems no-one would engage with them at that point, so they bit the bullet and gave the award. My guess is that now they are hugely regretting that decision as they look weak and ineffectually and prone to institutional misogyny as the floodgates are well and truly open on complainants.

My initial feel is the same as you that the BAFTA lot froze because of race.
My point originally though, as you seem to agree with, is that they were a bit stuck between two stools.

Anyway, hopefully now he will get what he deserves, which is, at least, and ex-career and a prison sentence (if he is found guilty of course, which he hasn't been yet). Although he does seem to have coughed to acting inappropriately!
 
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