How come nothing is ever written on here about the Hillsborough disaster?

There was a long and at times bad tempered thread in the old news forum.

It was certainly locked temporarily, if not permanently.

For the record, the match commander Duckenfield was cleared of manslaughter yesterday after a retrial.

We've already had two sets of inquests, so I think that's the end of official involvement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50592077
 
Sadly I think the Grenfell enquiry will go the same way.
Unlawful killing but without any prosecutions.
These events are too large and complex to pin all the blame on one individual.
Duckenfield was prosecuted - twice.

As a general point, juries in my experience like their killers to have administered some violence directly.

Duckenfield could have been convicted of gross negligence manslaughter, but it's a leap to convince a jury he killed anyone in the crowd from his position in the match control room.
 

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
Duckenfield was prosecuted - twice.

As a general point, juries in my experience like their killers to have administered some violence directly.

Duckenfield could have been convicted of gross negligence manslaughter, but it's a leap to convince a jury he killed anyone in the crowd from his position in the match control room.
I meant convictions. Not prosecutions.
I agree with your comments
 

tom73

Veteran
Location
Yorkshire
Ever time Hillsborough is talked about I always stand in solidarity for the 25 adult members and 5 cadets.
Who on the day did what they could often over and beyond what was expected.
With what they had which at that time was not like now.

Who like me volunteered week in week out to provide cover at events like Hillsborough.
Who left home not knowing what was to unfold or the effect it would have.
I know the duty officer from that day and you can't get much better. I also know members who attended once they found out what was happening. Some from my division along with our ambulance also attended and provided help in the aftermath.

From the whole archive that anyone can see to the new inquiry what they did that day was of the highest standard anyone can have asked for.
If volunteers could show the highest standard of care possible then it's not asking much for others who got paid to have done the same.
What's clear is they did not and together with the actions of others before the event and public bodies. 96 people died.

Many years later I was running a fundraising event and a man come shuffling along who looked to have the whole world on top of him.
From his appearance he looked lot older than me. We got talking and he turned out to be a former cadet who was at Hillsborough.
Who like me had worn the same cadet uniform , did the same training as me , attend the same events as me.
As he walked away a total empty shell of a man I was left thinking that could have been so easily me.
 

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke UK
There was a long and at times bad tempered thread in the old news forum.

It was certainly locked temporarily, if not permanently.

For the record, the match commander Duckenfield was cleared of manslaughter yesterday after a retrial.

We've already had two sets of inquests, so I think that's the end of official involvement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50592077
Any discussion comes down to those who say Liverpool fans were cause and those who say they were not. No amount of evidence of failures by Wednesday's management in planning (inadequate provision of entrance turnstiles and general neglect of facilities) will divert them from referencing Heysel etc and pointing finger at late arriving supporters.

I can see how difficult it must be for families to see Duckenfield acquitted.

The conclusion of the inquest which found gross negligence manslaughter, a decision made to criminal and not civil standard of proof (as some media reports have said) must have made it seem like an open and shut case.

Duckenfield gave evidence at the inquest and seemed close to admitting gross negligence and fact he'd lied about how/why gates were opened.

AIUI at Criminal trial he declined, as of course is his right, to give evidence. There's a controversy brewing over extent to which his Counsel in making submissions went behind the inquest conclusion that fans were not to blame and re-hashed a load of stuff about their behaviour and way in which Judge allowed that to happen. The Judge's summing up is also being criticised.

While as a long term observer of the operations of the courts and as somebody with no skin in the game can see how that can happen it must look to families as if process has been manipulated and he has 'got off'.

Will be interesting to see what happens next and in particular if allegations of misdirection by judge are pursued.
 

Levo-Lon

Guru
I think this last trial has cost tax payers £70 million..

Tragic event but all it seems to do is waste valuable funds that could help in so many ways.

We couldn't get any justice for my brothers death even though the inquest proved negligence from the building owner.
Nothing would be done to prosecute the owner.
We accepted that and moved on.

I wish the relatives could find peace and try to move on too.
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
To answer the ops original question. Probably because it is 30 years ago and is such a complex issue that unless you have friends or family directly involved, you have no real interest in it.
 
OP
PaulB

PaulB

Legendary Member
Location
Colne
I wish the relatives could find peace and try to move on too.
Yeah, disgrace aren't they? Ordinary people fighting against insurmountable odds to get the very law governing such things changed. People who wouldn't take no for an answer and stood up to the corporate powers that closed ranks and got what they deserved. How bloody awful.
 

pubrunner

Legendary Member
While as a long term observer of the operations of the courts and as somebody with no skin in the game can see how that can happen it must look to families as if process has been manipulated and he has 'got off'.
I think that Duckenfield has 'got off'. That said, I believe that others are more culpable for what occurred.

What is sometimes not realised, is that there were incidents in which supporters were crushed at Hillsborough, in 1981, 1987 & 1988; indeed, it was largely good fortune that no-one had been killed prior to Hillsborough in 1989.

The FA failed to learn from what happened in 1981 :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ZeFtviJiM


and then there were further incidents in 1987 and 1988.

It is very difficult to make any defence for Duckenfield (IMO); but he wasn't the one who decided on Hillsborough as the venue . . . and he (everyone) would have had every right to assume that the ground was safe & 'fit for purpose' - which clearly it wasn't, as illustrated by what had happened in 1981, 1987 & 1988.

I've no argument with putting Duckenfield on trial; but what about those (Health & Safety officials ) who 'inspected' the ground and deemed it to be safe ? And what about the FA, who ignored the warnings of 81, 87 & 88 and decided that Hillsborough was a suitable venue ?
 

pjd57

Veteran
Location
Glasgow
Wether it's football or anything else , the establishment will protect the status quo.
They need a police force , so will do what it takes to deny and deflect.
 

tom73

Veteran
Location
Yorkshire
The thing is it wasn't deemed safe it's safe certificate had ran out but was allowed to continue as a public venue. The local authority has questions. The then leader is now a sir and an mp i'm not sure he's ever been really questioned.
Two parts to this one is clear failings on the day in the run up and during it. Not only did police mess up the abmo service did too who's officer on the day totally lost it and basically panicked and failed to see the real extent of what was happening.

The other thing which should bother us all is the state and it's public bodies covering up it's role in the incident. Such as police officer statements being dictated by senior officers and changing statements. It's now known that the abmo service did the same even the fire service too I believe. Together with state supported idea to blame innocent people. Some of who died that day.

We all need to remember that the state has tore held account and at any time it can and will cover up any thing. Only though inquires like this and campaigns like this do we really get to see just what they will do to keep us in the dark.
 

Levo-Lon

Guru
Yeah, disgrace aren't they? Ordinary people fighting against insurmountable odds to get the very law governing such things changed. People who wouldn't take no for an answer and stood up to the corporate powers that closed ranks and got what they deserved. How bloody awful.
Well that was rational..
 
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