I think Trump deserves his own thread ....

MntnMan62

Well-Known Member
Location
Northern NJ
I’m sure @MntnMan62 can educate us. But it does seem that there is huge mistrust of the State in the USA.
It’s a low tax, low intervention economy with few safety nets. Every man for himself.
Socialism is a dirty word.
I think you folks have what’s happening in the US figured out pretty well.

I have been debating the state of things in this country with a friend of mine over the past 3+ years since drumpf took office and invariably the question boils down to how is all this possible? How can people actually support drumpf after all of the stuff he has said, done and failed to do? How can people be so blind to the realities of the coronavirus and refuse to wear masks while people in this country are dying at a rate of 400,000 per year? Those same questions get asked over and over and there really is only one answer. Drumpf wrote a book called The Art Of The Deal. Well, Americans have perfected The Art Of Stupidity. Sure you can say people are individualistic or fear “The State” or value personal freedoms over the common good. But that doesn’t really explain it with any real conviction. The only accurate description of what has taken place here is nothing less than a deeply ingrained case of mass stupidity. But not just your everyday garden variety variation of stupidity. This is a special form of stupidty that has been nurtured for years and decades of prosperity, entitlement and laziness. There really is no other way of to explain why we have who we have in the White House and why people won't wear masks or socially distance themselves.
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
When historians write the story of the Fall of the American Empire, material like this will show that Americans caught stupid.

View: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-53174415/they-want-to-throw-god-s-wonderful-breathing-system-out
Would you like a little more?

View: https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1276288370562523136?s=20
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I think you folks have what’s happening in the US figured out pretty well.

I have been debating the state of things in this country with a friend of mine over the past 3+ years since drumpf took office and invariably the question boils down to how is all this possible? How can people actually support drumpf after all of the stuff he has said, done and failed to do? How can people be so blind to the realities of the coronavirus and refuse to wear masks while people in this country are dying at a rate of 400,000 per year? Those same questions get asked over and over and there really is only one answer. Drumpf wrote a book called The Art Of The Deal. Well, Americans have perfected The Art Of Stupidity. Sure you can say people are individualistic or fear “The State” or value personal freedoms over the common good. But that doesn’t really explain it with any real conviction. The only accurate description of what has taken place here is nothing less than a deeply ingrained case of mass stupidity. But not just your everyday garden variety variation of stupidity. This is a special form of stupidty that has been nurtured for years and decades of prosperity, entitlement and laziness. There really is no other way of to explain why we have who we have in the White House and why people won't wear masks or socially distance themselves.

We aren't really that so far distant, in attitude in many ways here, maybe that's why we 'get it'
But being 'muricans you 'guys' just do it a bit more bigly :rolleyes:

There is a big suspicion whipped up of educated people, or people wanting to educate themselves - its called being 'elitist'.

'Middle class' aspirations other than of the 'economic betterment' sort -
-i mean those where they are centred around notions of social justice, equality, cohesion , are considered highly dubious in many circles.

And are slammed by the 'popular' press as 'political correctness gone mad' ' nanny state' or any other variation of lazy pejorative you can come up with.

Environmentalists, and equality advocates etc, are 'lefty do-gooders' 'unwashed rent a mob' or 'virtue signallers' - even when they are actively trying to make things fairer and better for others, not for themselves particularly, in fact often at expense to themselves.

Is it something to do with our 'peculiarly' Anglo Saxon culture of suspicion of those who make effort for the whole group, rather than just their own tribe - Who won't stick with the handed down 'hierachy' of 'God given' entitlement i don't know.

I guess it was the same mentality that allowed the flourishing, and justifying of the arrogant racist colonialist attitude in the first place.

"Its OK - we can hate, exploit, ignore, devalue 'that lot' over there, who don't look like us, cos they're not in our gang, we are superior, and we are entitled to all the stuff"

Not sure - further pondering - but something to think about while hoeing beans- not actually the beans in fact - the weeds around the beans of course.
 

MntnMan62

Well-Known Member
Location
Northern NJ
As a US citizen, watching that video makes me cringe. But it explains a great deal about what is happening in this country. None of it good. And it explains why we have a screaming orange sphincter muscle occupying the White House. The only thing I can do is pray that enough people have come to their senses that he will be voted out in November. But you should know that Palm Beach is in Florida. And other than Texas, Florida is known to have the largest concentration of dumb, stupid, low IQ, ignorant, racist people in the country.
 
I’m sure @MntnMan62 can educate us. But it does seem that there is huge mistrust of the State in the USA.
It’s a low tax, low intervention economy with few safety nets. Every man for himself.
Socialism is a dirty word.
I'm not 100% sure that the US has effectively much less "taxes" all said and done. The cost of health insurance usually adds on a good amount as well as potential state taxes on top (granted, varies by state).

I think you folks have what’s happening in the US figured out pretty well.

I have been debating the state of things.... There really is no other way of to explain why we have who we have in the White House and why people won't wear masks or socially distance themselves.
I know quite a few people who voted for Donald Trump. Almost all of them voted with their wallets -and they don't care really what else happens (something I virulently disagree with, btw). They all perceived it would benefit the stock market as well as lower taxation (yeah, don't go there!) and less business regulation. I also think there are quite a few people who voted for him as he was outside the traditional candidate mold. And honestly, seeing the candidates put up by the political parties I'd say it's not surprizing. I also suspect there was a noticeable number of people who voted for "anyone but Hilary" (this also plays into wanting a candidate outside the mold; I think Hilary is one of the supreme system "insiders" and was incredibly polarizing). Finally add in the voters who "wanted someone who says it like it is" and their lurking biases -which have always been there but unfortunately there is now a stage for them -and, well, you have President Trump. Arguably, many people who voted for Trump weren't stupid, but were voting for their own financial interests, a system outsider or against a candidate.

But I agree that it tends to be less interventionist and fewer safety nets, and yes, there is the "S" word. I perceive a more "me,me,me" attitude rather than a social approach which has definitely hindered and undermined the COVID19 efforts.

FWIW, I live in Massachusetts, which is traditionally a more "liberal" state. Unfortunately this also lends to a bubble effect as most people here aren't big Donald Trump fans. It would be interesting to live in a state that is very pro Trump to hear the general opinions on why they like Trump and why they think he is doing a good job.
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
 

MntnMan62

Well-Known Member
Location
Northern NJ
I'm not 100% sure that the US has effectively much less "taxes" all said and done. The cost of health insurance usually adds on a good amount as well as potential state taxes on top (granted, varies by state).



I know quite a few people who voted for Donald Trump. Almost all of them voted with their wallets -and they don't care really what else happens (something I virulently disagree with, btw). They all perceived it would benefit the stock market as well as lower taxation (yeah, don't go there!) and less business regulation. I also think there are quite a few people who voted for him as he was outside the traditional candidate mold. And honestly, seeing the candidates put up by the political parties I'd say it's not surprizing. I also suspect there was a noticeable number of people who voted for "anyone but Hilary" (this also plays into wanting a candidate outside the mold; I think Hilary is one of the supreme system "insiders" and was incredibly polarizing). Finally add in the voters who "wanted someone who says it like it is" and their lurking biases -which have always been there but unfortunately there is now a stage for them -and, well, you have President Trump. Arguably, many people who voted for Trump weren't stupid, but were voting for their own financial interests, a system outsider or against a candidate.

But I agree that it tends to be less interventionist and fewer safety nets, and yes, there is the "S" word. I perceive a more "me,me,me" attitude rather than a social approach which has definitely hindered and undermined the COVID19 efforts.

FWIW, I live in Massachusetts, which is traditionally a more "liberal" state. Unfortunately this also lends to a bubble effect as most people here aren't big Donald Trump fans. It would be interesting to live in a state that is very pro Trump to hear the general opinions on why they like Trump and why they think he is doing a good job.
I have some In-laws who swear by drumpf. But I guarantee you that you would not find it interesting to hear how they explain their rationale for supporting him. Instead their inane perspectives will drive you insane with their complete and total lack of understanding of any facts and their constant citing of fabrications for the basis for their positions. They have zero command of any statistics on the economy. They are mostly poorly educated and little command of facts and lack even a basic understanding of how an economy works. No understanding financial concepts like return on investment, the impact of interest rates on valuations. And they cannot cite accurate statistics for the things they think he is doing well. Most of the statistics they refer to are just wrong. Totally baffling.
The reasons he won the first time are no longer relevant because we now have his performance to look to to evaluate his capability and his competence. The whole argument over having someone who isn’t part of the “system” is also no longer relevant. In order for someone outside of the system to be successful, they have to be accomplished at what they do normally in order to be successful in managing the massive bureaucracy that is the US government. I know drumpf because I spent 34 years working in global real estate based in NYC. I came across drumpf and his company numerous times over the years and have firsthand experience that showed me how little he really know about the business. I also saw firsthand how little he knew about basic business principles and how he would stiff any contractor or lawyer or broker that he hired. I was involved in managing properties that his father put in trust for him and his siblings. I have direct understanding of the wealth his father built. All those people who think he is self made are soooooooo wrong. He inherited EVERYTHING. And it is a fact that if he had simply put the money he inherited in a S&P 500 stock fund, he'd have billions more than he has now. That's called losing money. For someone to be successful at operating the US government, they first need to have a proven track record of success. What was his success? Filing bankrupcty on his casinos 6 times and shutting their doors permanently. How is that success? No, he wasn't capable when he was elected and the last three plus years have proven that. What we've seen from him has been the worst of donald drumpf. I'm looking forward to joining a class action lawsuit to sue him civilly (since he's immune from criminal prosecution) for his incompetence and gross negligence. I want to see him pay and be left with nothing.
 
The reasons he won the first time are no longer relevant because we now have his performance to look to to evaluate his capability and his competence.
I was responding to your post of how the US got where it is with who is in the Whitehouse, and you put it down to stupidity. But for what it's worth, I do think the reasons why he was elected (not at all a majority of voters as I'm sure you are aware!) are very important. I think you do have to know why he appealed to so many people. There is a reason that states that were previously won by Obama in the previous two elections (Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) ended up in Trump's hands. Keep in mind it's going to be how people there evaluate his capability and his competence....

The whole argument over having someone who isn’t part of the “system” is also no longer relevant.
I think you do this at your own peril. Just my opinion, but I think had it not been for the Coronavirus and the ongoing fallout, putting up a candidate like Joe Biden would have been a potential recipe for disaster. It's the very thing the democrats ignored last election... And it's still a long way to go before November -a week is a very long time in politics.

Lastly, I just want to add that theoretically putting money into the stock market would have been a better bet, but I don't think that really tells the full story -and I can't help but feel this kind of story is more a simplistic jab that avoids serious analysis to get an easily read headline (sound familiar?). Even assuming you haven't made as much in the stock market, what about job generation? Actual buildings created? Income? The impact of changing a location with physical structures? Please don't think I'm defending Donald Trump, but it's just not as simple as it sounds for any business person -again, that's not saying given parameters it's not true, just that there is more to it. I take much more note and issue with his "questionable" business and personal practices.
 

MntnMan62

Well-Known Member
Location
Northern NJ
The sad thing is drumpf is probably proud that he's the impetus of this stuff. And I'll say it again. The ONLY explanation for why people support him is low IQ, poorly educated and racist. That's it. At this point we are far beyond the need to even debate the subject. That's been fxxxxxg rubbed into the ground.
 
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