Jenny Jones #curfewformen

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Earlier on the thread, wolf whistling was described as a bad thing and part of the sexual harassment women routinely face. Except the women I know laughed at the idea this was a bad thing. Further, I then provided links and data showing that 56% of women find wolf whistling to be "harmless fun". Even after this was posted, the same contributors continued with their assertion that wolf whistles are sexual assault.

Once again -


https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...whistling-compliment-and-just-bit-harmless-fu

So on that basis it's probably fair to say that the loudest female voices on this thread represent a minority female opinion.
Views on wolf whistling will vary, its a minor issue compared with other things.

Although it can be a precursor to trouble, in some instances depending on context.

But I don't suppose any women.
However loud or quiet their voices are wouldnt wish to see a reduction in violence against women though, would they.?

Some women here, are either bold, or stupid enough to come here to discuss this, problem, on a thread dominated by men.

And who is to say how representative those male voices are, compared with the average ??

The problem of violence against women continues to exist.

Some seem more keen to tackle it than others.
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
the same contributors continued with their assertion that wolf whistles are sexual assault
Can you stop seriously misrepresenting what people say pls thx.

Literally no-one thinks whistling is sexual assault (except perhaps Cliché - I guess it would fit with his strange assertion that posting in chat rooms is 'violence'). It's you (and Hobbes) that seems especially obsessed with wolf-whistling. The strongest language that women have used to describe it in the thread is 'can be a threatening experience [...] if she feels in an unsafe situation'. Aurora described it as 'something many women find embarassing and offensive'.

I think if all women had to deal with from men was the odd wolf whistle we probably wouldn't worry our pretty little heads about it. Of course, it suits you to talk about the relatively trivial end of the street harassment spectrum, whether or not you understand its relationship to more threatening behaviour, because it fits with the Fuss About Nothing narrative. 'Harmless fun' is an interesting take, though, because whether you consider it harmless or not, we all know who it is whose fun matters. Meanwhile, this thread was occasioned not by whistling but by what a man did to a woman that ended in her having to be identified a week later by her dental records. Enjoy the harmless fun, guys.
 
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roubaixtuesday

Veteran
Can you stop seriously misrepresenting what people say pls thx.

Literally no-one thinks whistling is sexual assault (except perhaps Cliché - I guess it would fit with his strange assertion that posting in chat rooms is 'violence'). It's you (and Hobbes) that seems especially obsessed with wolf-whistling. The strongest language that women have used to describe it in the thread is 'can be a threatening experience [...] if she feels in an unsafe situation'. Aurora described is as 'something many women find embarassing and offensive'.

I think if all women had to deal with from men was the odd wolf whistle we probably wouldn't worry our pretty little heads about it. Of course, it suits you to talk about the relatively trivial end of the street harassment spectrum, whether or not you understand its relationship to more threatening behaviour, because it fits with the Fuss About Nothing narrative. 'Harmless fun' is an interesting take, though, because whether you consider it harmless or not, we all know who it is whose fun matters. Meanwhile, this thread was occasioned not by whistling but by what a man did to a woman that ended in her having to be identified a week later by her dental records. Enjoy the harmless fun, guys.
The obsession with wolf whistling appears to be related to the fact that a survey can be found showing that a mere 20% or whatever find it a form of harrassment.

It's thereby a very useful rhetorical device to make the more general point that it's all a fuss about nothing.

I think "Wah wah wah wah women" was mentioned at some point.
 
(except perhaps Cliché - I guess it would fit with his strange assertion that posting in chat rooms is 'violence').
That's again, rather rude of you. The 'assertion' was actually taken from the definition used for 'violence' from one of the links offered on here as 'proof'. Not all violence is physical and not all bullying involves threats and menace. Trying to belittle is bullying, and is a recognised form of violence.

Would you remove the data from the females that ticked the yes box for that same criteria?

If you explained to males, that having your bum grabbed or nipped at any time in your life was sexual assault, I reckon those figures would be in the high 90%'s too.

None of that is aimed at underplaying violence against women, I'm simply pointing out that perceptions and numbers don't always match reality, which is why I feel a holisitic approach is better if the objective is genuinely to tackle violence.

I know it got pushed aside, but there are a significant number of instances where extremely violent males related tales of abuse by females in their youth. Ignoring that, leaves a section of victims to become potential offenders.
 

Cirrus

Active Member
Yes that can happen.
I think this trivialises it somewhat, it's akin to #notallmen e.g. #notallmummies

I'm not attempting to derail the thread by bringing it up, however @ClichéGuevara made reference to males being on the end of violence as children then going on to become perpetrators of violence against women. Again I am not suggesting that all male violence is down to childhood trauma at the hands of their mothers but I believe that some of it will be, so in some instances, what came first the violent man or the violent mother.
 
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roubaixtuesday

Veteran
Again I am not suggesting that all male violence is down to childhood trauma at the hands of their mothers
Why do you mention mothers but not fathers? (This is a genuine question, I realise typing it could be interpreted as a windup)

My guess would be that childhood trauma from parental abuse is more common from fathers. I could be wrong.
 

Cirrus

Active Member
Why do you mention mothers but not fathers? (This is a genuine question, I realise typing it could be interpreted as a windup)

My guess would be that childhood trauma from parental abuse is more common from fathers. I could be wrong.
Your correct re fathers being more likely, of children abused by parents 37% by the father 30% by the mother, from the ons: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ow-about-perpetrators-of-child-physical-abuse of course that's of the known physical abuse. I suspect a lot goes on that never sees the light of day.

The mention of mothers was really about my own experience as she was the perpetrator.

Edited for typo
 

The Crofted Crest

Über Member
data showing that 56% of women find wolf whistling to be "harmless fun
It doesn't say that though, does it? It says 56% of Britons. What are the odds that most of those 56% are men? And how many pounds to the penny that most of the 26% who thought wolf whistling was sexist and unacceptable were women?
 

matticus

Veteran
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I'm not posting this because I'm in favour of whistling - I'm not, it embarrasses me - but when I first saw these figures they did surprise me!
It showed me that we can easily hold incorrect preconceptions about the views of the general population.
 
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mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I think this trivialises it somewhat, it's akin to #notallmen e.g. #notallmummies

I'm not attempting to derail the thread by bringing it up, however @ClichéGuevara made reference to males being on the end of violence as children then going on to become perpetrators of violence against women. Again I am not suggesting that all male violence is down to childhood trauma at the hands of their mothers but I believe that some of it will be, so in some instances, what came first the violent man or the violent mother.
I think it's very likely that violent or abusive tendencies run in families, in fact I'm sure I've read studies that show it to be the case.

That's not to say its inevitable, we can as parents choose to do differently than what is modelled to us.

But it will need to be a conscious choice.

It's harder to do parenting differently, than follow the model we are shown perhaps.

However I think it's dangerous and unfair, also to suggest that all victims of violence or abuse will necessarily go on to be abusers themselves.

That's deeply unfair assumption to make - I'm not suggesting you were saying that.

As regards mothers, in particular, there was historically a neglect of, or lack of understanding about post natal depression, or mental health issues resulting from the loss of a baby.

-"never mind you can have another one" was a common response to miscarriage or the death of a baby in childbirth, even in my mother's generation.

Thankfully, things are getting better on that front, although miscarriage, and post partum depression are still not widely discussed.

They need to be.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I think this shows how women used to think that catcalling was just something they had to put up with, as part and parcel of being a woman.

And perhaps from an age when most of the time it was just 'innocent fun' even among young people known to each other.

Nowadays that feeling of street safety has lessened perhaps, particularly. knowing that people are less likely to intervene.

Alongside women refusing to be submissive to, or even necessarily interested in the opinions of random men, as to their attractiveness.

That is, we're not actually asking for, or needing external validation thanks, feel free to keep your opinions to yourselves, ta 👍

To that end.
this made me chuckle the other day..


582936
 
I think this shows how women used to think that catcalling was just something they had to put up with, as part and parcel of being a woman.

And perhaps from an age when most of the time it was just 'innocent fun' even among young people known to each other.

Nowadays that feeling of street safety has lessened perhaps, particularly. knowing that people are less likely to intervene.

Alongside women refusing to be submissive to, or even necessarily interested in the opinions of random men, as to their attractiveness.

That is, we're not actually asking for, or needing external validation thanks, feel free to keep your opinions to yourselves, ta 👍

To that end.
this made me chuckle the other day..


View attachment 582936
I mentioned previously my experiences of seeing young men having to experience an all female factory floor. The outcome would have been very much front page had the genders been reversed. There are plenty of other examples I have experienced of females behaving in the way you admonish some males for doing.

Also, blokes get hit on too, I've had women physically pick me up and carry me as a way of 'introducing' themselves, and I'm not a small person and I've certainly experienced what, if the roles were reversed, would be deemed sexual abuse. They were certainly very strong sexual advances, and on many occasions. There were quite a few clubs around here, where rejecting the advances of females was a dangerous thing to do.

None of that will be in any of the data quoted so far.

Again, that's not trying to play down what you're saying, but viewing solely from one gender will only create division, and will not move the aim of reducing violence forward, especially as the views you post are not shared by a reasonable proportion of females.

Look at the indignant reaction to having it pointed out that posts on here met the criteria used for some of the data behind violence. People got offended by having it pointed out that applying the same criteria, categorised them as violent bullies, and ironically reacted in a way that also met the criteria for bullying, which is a form of violence.

It needs unity, not division if the goal is genuinely to address the issues of violence, and the perception of safety.
 

monkers

Über Member
It's just another ridiculous false dichotomy that allows those people with strong opinions to vent. I get whistled from time to time - I neither appreciate it or am bothered by it. I usually just give them the 'little willy' signal, mutter 'what a twat' under my breath and five seconds later the moment is gone.

Do I require other men to intervene on my behalf? No. Do I think it should be a reportable incident? No. Am I bovvered? No. Do I think others should be bothered? No. Do I think others can take offence? Well, that's a matter for them, but I don't advise it.
 
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