Motorway question ?

[Linford]

Non cycling, I know but i'd be interested to see another opinion on this.

You are trundling down the inside lane of a 3 lane motorway carriageway at about 70mph. You approach a car doing about 60, look in your mirror and the middle lane is clear, so you indicate to move out, and as you do so, someone in the outside lane who is doing about 80 decides they want to move into the middle lane - who has priority to move into that space ?

 

[GrasB]

Fundamentally it's the driver of the overtaking vehicle who should yield to the vehicle they're overtaking. In my mind this includes when they're attempting to maneuver in a clearly signaled manner.

 

[Peteaud]

They have, as they are going faster.

 

[GrasB]

They have, as they are going faster.

In order of rising importance
1) if they have a clear lane in front of them then they don't have to change lanes.
2) if they're pulling to the nearside to undertake they're executing an illegal maneuver
3) It's the overtaking drivers responsibility to keep clear of the vehicle they're overtaking along as the driver of the vehicle being overtaken gives plenty of warning.

 

[Peteaud]

In order of rising importance
1) if they have a clear lane in front of them then they don't have to change lanes.
2) if they're pulling to the nearside to undertake they're executing an illegal maneuver
3) It's the overtaking drivers responsibility to keep clear of the vehicle they're overtaking along as the driver of the vehicle being overtaken gives plenty of warning.

looking at the op.

forget about undertaking, if they are legaly changing lanes at the same time as you are wanting to change, they have priority.

In all fairness its a bit chicken and eqq, same as if two car get to a rounderbout at the same time.

 

[endoman]

They should overtake you. All about awareness and early signalling.

 

[Linford]

I actually work with a DSA driving instructor (it is his evening/weekend hobby, taught my kids to drive, and most of the sprogs of the other people I work with), and I just asked him his opinion on it.

He said that If you have already indicated to move out, then the priority is yours, and the overtaking vehicle from the outside lane should have waited out in the lane and come past you once you were there as they will be moving into a space occupied by a slower moving vehicle - in the same way which as if you go to overtake a car in the inside lane which at the same time looks to overtake another vehicle themselves into the middle lane at the same time as you are.or simple speaking, the car in front alway has priority in that space, and an overtaking vehicle from the outside lane will always be approaching from behind when they move into that space - if this makes sense.

 

[Arch]

I'd give way to them, regardless of right or wrong. Basically I don't trust anyone on the road to have a brain or manners, especially anyone in the outside lane of a motorway. But I would assume that they had priority, since they are in effect already in an overtaking manoeuvre (presumably having overtaken something earlier), whereas I wouldn't have started one yet.

 

[Arch]

I actually work with a DSA driving instructor (it is his evening/weekend hobby, taught my kids to drive, and most of the sprogs of the other people I work with), and I just asked him his opinion on it.

He said that If you have already indicated to move out, then the priority is yours, and the overtaking vehicle from the outside lane should have waited out in the lane and come past you once you were there as they will be moving into a space occupied by a slower moving vehicle - in the same way which as if you go to overtake a car in the inside lane which at the same time looks to overtake another vehicle themselves into the middle lane at the same time as you are.or simple speaking, the car in front alway has priority in that space, and an overtaking vehicle from the outside lane will always be approaching from behind when they move into that space - if this makes sense.

I can sort of see that, but it all seems to hinge on who indicates first, and given that people with less brain and fewer manners are less likely to indicate until they are actually making their move, I'd still give way for the sake of self preservation...

 

[GrasB]

forget about undertaking, if they are legaly changing lanes at the same time as you are wanting to change, they have priority.

Changing lane for an undertake is an illegal maneuver there for it is relevant. Anyway the legal responsibility of the overtaking vehicle is to stay clear of the vehicle being overtake. My AD training says that priority belongs to the vehicle being overtake. That's doesn't mean that the driver of the vehicle being overtaken should enforce his priority regardless of the situation.

In all fairness its a bit chicken and eqq, same as if two car get to a rounderbout at the same time.

Hu? 2 vehicles arrive at a roundabout at the same time the vehicle on the right has priority. If the two vehicles are turning right then even at a mini-roundabout both go & pass behind each other. If it's large roundabout then the vehicles never come into conflict to start with.

 

[Linford]

Changing lane for an undertake is an illegal maneuver there for it is relevant. Anyway the legal responsibility of the overtaking vehicle is to stay clear of the vehicle being overtake. My AD training says that priority belongs to the vehicle being overtake. That's doesn't mean that the driver of the vehicle being overtaken should enforce his priority regardless of the situation.


Hu? 2 vehicles arrive at a roundabout at the same time the vehicle on the right has priority. If the two vehicles are turning right then even at a mini-roundabout both go & pass behind each other. If it's large roundabout then the vehicles never come into conflict to start with.

As I understand it, the first vehicle onto the roundabout has priority, so any vehicle which claims that space first will force the others to wait behind the give way lines irrespective of whether they are to the right or not

 

[Arch]

Changing lane for an undertake is an illegal maneuver there for it is relevant.

Linford didn't mention an undertake, so that's irrelevant. As I understand it, the car was in the outside lane and wanted to move back left, which is what he ought to do once he's finished is previous overtake.

Of course he might have just been blasting down the outside lane of an empty motorway and decided to move over just to annoy Linford (we don't know what other traffic was behind), in which I'd leave him to get ahead of instead of having him behind me...

 

[Peteaud]

As I understand it, the first vehicle onto the roundabout has priority, so any vehicle which claims that space first will force the others to wait behind the give way lines irrespective of whether they are to the right or not

Yes, But

Both vehicles arrive at the same time.

Driver a thinks - my right of way and goes
Driver b thinks - my right of way and goes

or

Driver a thinks - other cars row and waits
Driver b - the same

So both vehicles go at the same time, or not at all.

Does not always apply but generaly on 4 way mini rb it always happens. The same as when you are walking along a path, someones coming the other way and both persons move.

 

[GrasB]

As I understand it, the first vehicle onto the roundabout has priority, so any vehicle which claims that space first will force the others to wait behind the give way lines irrespective of whether they are to the right or not

I'm assuming people are driving in a reasonable manner & not changing onto the roundabout at >40mph. If the vehicle on the is on the round about as a vehicle on the right approaches then they take priority but the time frame when this is a conflict is miniscule. If 2 vehicles reach the roundabout at the same time so neither are actually on it the vehicle to the right takes priority or if the 2 vehicles are more-or-less opposite each other on a normal roundabout, there's virtually no potential for conflict & on a mini-roundabout you simply pass behind the other vehicle.

There is a problem with large vehicles & mini roundabouts which cause other problems but then we're moving to 'common sense' rules & non-verbal negotiation between drivers.

 

[GrasB]

Linford didn't mention an undertake, so that's irrelevant. As I understand it, the car was in the outside lane and wanted to move back left, which is what he ought to do once he's finished is previous overtake.

Of course he might have just been blasting down the outside lane of an empty motorway and decided to move over just to annoy Linford (we don't know what other traffic was behind), in which I'd leave him to get ahead of instead of having him behind me...

That point was qualified with an if Arch. If the driver is changing lanes to undertaking the point is relevant, if they're not the situation doesn't meet the qualification & it's a moot point. This is why statements are conditional.