Ninja last night,

[J4CKO]

Was out last night in my car, due to under use the brake discs had rusted a bit and were causing a noise so I stripped it, cleaned it and went for a test drive, was driving along the main road, its dark, not that well lit and there were tress, the car in front lunged left and hooted as a ninja on a bike appeared, now there is a cycle lane and he was in it, the car was over to the left but not in it but due to the width of the cycle lane it meant the driver was quite close before he realised, it made me jump and move over as I hadnt seen him either, I slowed down, windows was already down as was listening for brake type noises and shouted "GET SOME LIGHTS" to the cyclist, litterally he was all but invisible, dressed in black, long dark hair, nothing at all to aid visibility.

Was I being agressive, do you think he would take any notice, it really annoys me as a driver as potentially he could have caused an accident and not just hurt himself depending on who swerves to avoid him, but also as a cyclist as those who dont just lump idiots like that as a cyclist and treat the rest of us accordingly.

What is the penalty for cycling without lights after dark ?

 

[marinyork]

**Yawn**

**Remembers time on Saturday he was told to get some lights at 1pm in the afternoon**

 

[J4CKO]

**Yawn**

**Remembers time on Saturday he was told to get some lights at 1pm in the afternoon**

Yawn ?

I thought it was worth mentioning, sorry if it bores you !

It was about 8pm, I have my lights on all the time these days, even in daylight it gives drivers more warning and a chance to react earlier which I reckon can only be a good thing.

 

[Bristol Dave]

No you weren't out of order. I've nearly had a head on with a ninja on a cycle path. However, they are usually of sub-normal intelligence anyway

I think the penalty is a £60 fine. The police can also search you and confiscate your bike if they think you are using it for crime - e.g. you have a pocket full of lockpicks and you say it's not your bike etc. (there was one of these on a cop show on the telly a few weeks ago).

BD

 

[marinyork]

Yawn ?

I thought it was worth mentioning, sorry if it bores you !

It was about 8pm, I have my lights on all the time these days, even in daylight it gives drivers more warning and a chance to react earlier which I reckon can only be a good thing.

The police occasionally send out those vehicle documents insisting you get whatever done to vehicle x, signed by some corrupt LBS and take it back to the police station within 7 days. Can't remember what they are called.

People have got £30 FPNs.

At 8pm you should be able to see someone really. No ifs and no buts.

I disagree about lights in the daytime, I think that's so far out to be called deluded. Most bike lights just aren't up to the job in daytime. My Hope vision functions fairly well in dull conditions 2 or 3 hours before sunset, other than that, not really. Most people's rears are a complete waste of time in the daytime. Similarly ridiculously extrapolating your behaviour thing, your attitude is what got me shouted at in broad daylight.

 

[J4CKO]

I disagree about lights in the daytime, I think that's so far out to be called deluded. Most bike lights just aren't up to the job in daytime. My Hope vision functions fairly well in dull conditions 2 or 3 hours before sunset, other than that, not really. Most people's rears are a complete waste of time in the daytime. Similarly ridiculously extrapolating your behaviour thing, your attitude is what got me shouted at in broad daylight.

My attitude ? I think you will find that was someone else, someone perhaps who had not seen a car swerve due to an unlit cyclist, I didnt see him as the car in front was a largish one, maybe the driver did see him but looking at the way he swerved it did look like evasive action, it was actually pretty dark, it was past eight and overcast, plus the road has high hedges and trees.

I dont think it makes any difference shouting at them to get lights, when I say shouting I mean rasing my voice to be heard over the car and background noise.

If you were riding without lights at night would you be offended if someone suggested that perhaps you might like to be visible, would you be mortified if you were given that fixed penalty notice, I can understand being aggreived if its perfect daylight.

With regards to lights in the day, I do tend to put them on if its dull weather, plus on my rural commute there is a lot of tree covered roads, deluded maybe but batteries the last ages so why not, I just reckon that drivers going from bright sunlight into a dark section full of trees just see dark, if there is a bright point of light flashing it may make the difference, I assume people havent seen me anyway and dont ride any differently on or off.

 

[marinyork]

My attitude ? I think you will find that was someone else, someone perhaps who had not seen a car swerve due to an unlit cyclist, I didnt see him as the car in front was a largish one, maybe the driver did see him but looking at the way he swerved it did look like evasive action, it was actually pretty dark, it was past eight and overcast, plus the road has high hedges and trees.

I was just saying you can extrapolate the "I behave like such and such, people who don't do x give me a bad name". I don't use my lights in daylight, you do. People see your lights and think everyone should behave like that so shout at me. There's also the principle that if many people do behave like that then they abuse/expect every other cyclist to do so. Soon it'll be SMIDSY because you didn't have any lights on in the daytime and SMIDSY you didn't have those Hope 2 LEDs.

The case you cited is marginal. 8pm is very closed to dusk (here). Lights most certainly should be used, but it remains close to dusk. I can understand someone not being able to see them blocked by a car, the person in front really should have seen them. It's what lights are for. People moan about NINJAs, the vast majority should be spotted fairly easily. I do the majority of my riding at night, I see very few NINJAs and a lot of one-eyed monsters or cars with totally defective lights. NINJAs may be annoying, but most of them aren't a big deal, its yet another thing for people to get overexcited about. I also find it ironic that people call them NINJAs because if they are wearing black in some non-clean light conditions they can be pretty visible.

I dont think it makes any difference shouting at them to get lights, when I say shouting I mean raising my voice to be heard over the car and background noise.

I think most of the problem is people don't realise how cheap particularly rears are.

If you were riding without lights at night would you be offended if someone suggested that perhaps you might like to be visible, would you be mortified if you were given that fixed penalty notice, I can understand being aggreived if its perfect daylight.

There is no legal requirement for me to be using lights at 1pm on one of the sunniest days of the year. It is entirely irrelevant what some nutter in a car thinks, I've also outlined that I don't think it is an effective use of my lights. I've had people flash and shout comments before the legal lighting up time, I keep a very close notice on when it is. Opinions tend to vary a lot on lights from those exceptionally poor drivers who moan about them not being bright enough to those that think they are mini suns and could you please turn them down so as to not blind me.

 

[Twanger]

At 8pm you should be able to see someone really. No ifs and no buts.

Maybe in the artic wastes of Sheffield, land of the midnight sun. In the tropics of London, closer to the equator, it was dark by 8 last night. Don't know where OP has his being. I got ninja'd by Buck House at half six yesterday....ghostly black figure coming down Birdcage walk. I only saw him because it's a blending of traffic that worries me, and so I stare paranoidly as I shift lanes.

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

The sun is setting darn sarf at around quarter past seven at the moment. It's proper dark by eight, especially yesterday when it was very overcast.

 

[fossyant]

It was dark over this way at 8.00pm last night - i.e. not far from J4CKO.....

 

[J4CKO]

It was dark over this way at 8.00pm last night - i.e. not far from J4CKO.....

Yep, cheers, it was between Alderley and Wilmslow.

 

[Archie]

Yep, cheers, it was between Alderley and Wilmslow.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?month=9&year=2009&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1&n=302

About 4 minutes more light than darn sarf, but still pretty dark at 8 I reckon.

 

[andrew-the-tortoise]

Daytime lights can be beneficial in poor weather conditions, i.e. when 'it goes a bit black over bills mothers' or if riding in heavily shaded areas.

'Ninjas' on the other hand are highly visible when it snows.

 

[BentMikey]

Ninja - must have been a failed one because you saw him.

 

[XmisterIS]

I don't think you were out of order telling him to get some lights!

I doubt he will take notice though; perhaps it's best to let Darwinism take its natural course.

I have told a cyclist to get lights before, when I myself was on a bike.

I cycled up beside him on the way out of Gosport, the conversation went something like:

"Hi there, lovely warm night isn't it? You know you should really get some lights, you're virtually invisible."
"Fack orf you wankar" (Said in the chap's best Gosport accent).
"Oh, charming!"
"Fack orf you fackin' posh wankar!"
"Thank you ever so much. Good night!"

It is with that kind of person that Darwinism is the only option left ...