No Vac Passport.

cougie uk

Über Member
They say they don't want vaccine passports but then say they want something similar...

Pandering to the anti vaxers.

The science of vaccines has been around for many decades so it's not like they're working in the dark.

Bring on the Covid passports. You just know they will U turn in the summer when airlines are asking for them. Get ahead of things for once.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
https://nathnacyfzone.org.uk/factsh...ertificate-of-vaccination-or-prophylaxis-icvp
This certificate is the Yellow Fever (WHO one: https://www.who.int/ihr/IVC200_06_26.pdf#
and it's now 'valid for life'.
The whole 'COVID vaccination passport' thing is an international issue and the WHO has a perfectly good (paper certificate) template to adapt: no need to reinvent the wheel, just let's make it tubeless (aka digital). There (obviously) needs to be an international digital standard (as opposed to paper) - ?QR code but then the database (multi-national) checking issue rears its attractive little head. Will nations be willing to share? What to do when you arrive at Galeão International and the the Man from Del Monte says No?
WHO (Dec 2020):
Iaw International Health Regulations (2005), WHO has the mandate to coordinate among member states to provide a public health response to the international spread of diseases.
The Smart Vaccination Certificate consortium will . . . focus on defining specifications and standards for a digital vaccination certificate . . . [with] dual purpose of:
(1) facilitating monitoring of national COVID-19 vaccination programs as well as
(2) supporting cross-border uses architected for a potential future in which the COVID-19 vaccine would be included in an updated version of the International Health Regulations.
Are the WHO "clueless"? Is this pandering to the anti-vaxxers? Answers on a postcard please, addressed to @Santa, North Pole (NB not seen since 2011).
 

Kajjal

Veteran
Location
Wheely World
Vaccine passports or requirements are not unusual, even before COVID certain vaccines were required to travel to certain countries. Something similar will happen this time as well driven by practical need. If people choose not to be vaccinated due to personal choice they also assume the responsibility for that choice. The challenge is how not to impact those who wish to be vaccinated but have not yet been and how this develops in future.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
That's the key point, @Kajjal . Once such vaccinations are available 'on demand' this will be a non-issue - see my post for a framework. But until then, the width and breadth of the British Isles are there for the enjoying, once restrictions allow (so not for at least another month).
Although note the additional challenge of how to allow (without discriminating) for those who, for medical reasons, can not accept a vaccine.
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
They're currently talking about Vaccine Passports/Certificates again on the radio.

Whilst there's such a thing as asymptomatic carriers of Covid, would proving that you've had the vaccine really make a difference?
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
It may be that vaccinated people have reduced capacity for transmission, even if asymptomatic.
As I understand it, the vaccine reduces the chances of the person with the vaccine from being 'badly' affected by the virus (by 90%, whatever that means?)... yet can still carry it and transmit it.

Obviously, symptomatic carriers will be coughing more and therefore ejecting more viral particles into the air each time they cough than an asymptomatic carrier... but reduced capacity for transmission is not zero capacity.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
I think the current proposals are very bad, they all go with the idea that the vaccine gives immunity while that is not yet proven, there is the suggestion that having had covid or having received a vaccine gives around 6 months protection but suggetions/indications ect. is something else as proof.
It's also becoming a bit like a in or out case, while i think going forward a better way would be if where going to introduce something like this a simple vaccination card, not to judge people on whether they had a vaccine or not but simply stating if they have had the vaccine, if so which one and so on. Because moving on it's going to be likely that different vaccine history means different treatment and so on. Seperate from that super quick test are more important because of the risk of transmission without any symptons and the chance/likelyness that a future variant might not care about someone being vaccinated or not.

So a vaccine paspport would give a false sense of hope quick and reliable test are a much better solution, unfortunately the world as we knew it before covid has ceased to exist, i don't see returning to normal happening anytime soon.
 

BoldonLad

Veteran
Location
South Tyneside
I think the current proposals are very bad, they all go with the idea that the vaccine gives immunity while that is not yet proven, there is the suggestion that having had covid or having received a vaccine gives around 6 months protection but suggetions/indications ect. is something else as proof.
It's also becoming a bit like a in or out case, while i think going forward a better way would be if where going to introduce something like this a simple vaccination card, not to judge people on whether they had a vaccine or not but simply stating if they have had the vaccine, if so which one and so on. Because moving on it's going to be likely that different vaccine history means different treatment and so on. Seperate from that super quick test are more important because of the risk of transmission without any symptons and the chance/likelyness that a future variant might not care about someone being vaccinated or not.

So a vaccine paspport would give a false sense of hope quick and reliable test are a much better solution, unfortunately the world as we knew it before covid has ceased to exist, i don't see returning to normal happening anytime soon.
Cannot speak for everyone, but... I (and my wife) where given exactly such a card, stating date administered, which vaccine, Which batch, which arm, at our first Covid vaccination. The card was updated to add same details for second vaccination.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
Cannot speak for everyone, but... I (and my wife) where given exactly such a card, stating date administered, which vaccine, Which batch, which arm, at our first Covid vaccination. The card was updated to add same details for second vaccination.
Yes that could be i don't know what kind of cards they give as i'm not in the vaccination age bracket, my point is just that the concept of ''you can only go to country x or place y if you have a vaccine'' is wrong. i know the legal documents also say you can have a negative test but the emphasis is on having had a vaccine. While there is no proof that a vaccine means you can't transmit the virus, it has been proven or there is strong evidence that it prevents people from getting very sick from covid. So my point is that it's not a good idea to let people go to the pub/other country/mass event on the basis of a vaccine that has not proven to protect against transmission.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Ditch the 'passport' word. To fly people have for some time needed certification of a negative PCR test within 48/72 hours before departure. I don't see a similar test-type requirement being dropped any time soon. Of course those vaccinated are much less likely to be infected so much more likely to 'pass' a PCR test.
There are massive inequities in demanding a certificate of vaccination. I can see it might be a demand for cruises but access to that is already inequitable because of cost.
Difference with, say, a Yellow fever certificate is that we know (evidence) the efficacy of the Yellow Fever vaccine (99% 30 days after vaccination) and of course the transmission mechanism is not person-to-person.
The efficacy of the most efficacious COVID-19 vaccines is <95% against symptomatic disease. We don't know what the protection is against asymptomatic infection or the effect on tranmission from those thus infected.
I reckon the whole 'vaccine certification' thing is being maintained to encourage vaccine take-up, when offered, in the under 30s.
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
Ditch the 'passport' word. To fly people have for some time needed certification of a negative PCR test within 48/72 hours before departure. I don't see a similar test-type requirement being dropped any time soon. Of course those vaccinated are much less likely to be infected so much more likely to 'pass' a PCR test.
There are massive inequities in demanding a certificate of vaccination. I can see it might be a demand for cruises but access to that is already inequitable because of cost.
Difference with, say, a Yellow fever certificate is that we know (evidence) the efficacy of the Yellow Fever vaccine (99% 30 days after vaccination) and of course the transmission mechanism is not person-to-person.
The efficacy of the most efficacious COVID-19 vaccines is <95% against symptomatic disease. We don't know what the protection is against asymptomatic infection or the effect on tranmission from those thus infected.
I reckon the whole 'vaccine certification' thing is being maintained to encourage vaccine take-up, when offered, in the under 30s.
they're also talking about proving one has had the vaccine (with a card) in order to go to the pub.

This is raising questions such as it discriminating against younger age groups who may still be waiting, or those who for medical reasons cannot have the vaccine, and the old ID card via the backdoor paranoia... yet no one seems to be talking about asymptomatic transmission.
 
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