No Vac Passport.

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
Not sure why this is such a big deal. I might catch COVID - with some symptoms - and still decide to be an idiot and attend an over-50s party in a pub. Have you thought about that?
not sure what your point is?

My point is... you might catch Covid, have no symptoms, and have a little I've had the vaccine certificate in your wallet and attend an over 50's party feeling assured that you're in the clear.

If those who've had the vaccine are still capable asymptomatic transmission, a vaccination certificate is going to be neither here nor there.
 

matticus

Veteran
Hi Monty,
Sorry if i was unclear. I've amended your post to show the similar situation I am talking about:
My point is... you might catch Covid, have no some symptoms, and have a little I've had the vaccine certificate in your wallet and attend an over 50's party feeling assured that you're in the clear.

If those who've had the vaccine are still capable asymptomatic transmission, a vaccination certificate is going to be neither here nor there.
Can you see that this is just as bad? You need to be worrying about both situations, which are in fact almost the same!
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
Hi Monty,
Sorry if i was unclear. I've amended your post to show the similar situation I am talking about:

Can you see that this is just as bad? You need to be worrying about both situations, which are in fact almost the same!
In one case we have a person winging it, and in the other we have a person truly believing they're OK.

But in both cases, the idea of a vaccine certificate is pointless.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
If those who've had the vaccine are still capable asymptomatic transmission, a vaccination certificate is going to be neither here nor there.
If 80+% of the population would be able to flaunt a 'vaccination certificate' (which by the way is not a little card with a vaccine name and batch number) then the chances of an individual being an infected asymptomatic in the reopened pub is low, and the chances of another drinker catching it is an order lower.
 

matticus

Veteran
If 80+% of the population would be able to flaunt a 'vaccination certificate' (which by the way is not a little card with a vaccine name and batch number) then the chances of an individual being an infected asymptomatic in the reopened pub is low, and the chances of another drinker catching it is an order lower.
Yes. We shouldn't view it as a total prophylactic, but it would ensure conditions that are vv much safer for us to socialize in.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
Ditch the 'passport' word. To fly people have for some time needed certification of a negative PCR test within 48/72 hours before departure. I don't see a similar test-type requirement being dropped any time soon. Of course those vaccinated are much less likely to be infected so much more likely to 'pass' a PCR test.
The EU is also going to call it something else(forgot what name they came up with) But changing the name does not change the bad option. As it stand now the vaccine is only known to protect yourself from getting seriously ill, ''so a vaccinated so i'm safe card/passport/whatever fancy name'' is not going to work instead testing is going to be the way to go for the foreseeable future. But that does'nt stop countries from requirering proof of vaccination. (at least Greece, Italy etc. want vaccine fake saferty cards)
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Perhaps the 'do you look old enough' test that Sainsburys use will do.
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
The EU is also going to call it something else(forgot what name they came up with) But changing the name does not change the bad option. As it stand now the vaccine is only known to protect yourself from getting seriously ill, ''so a vaccinated so i'm safe card/passport/whatever fancy name'' is not going to work instead testing is going to be the way to go for the foreseeable future. But that does'nt stop countries from requirering proof of vaccination. (at least Greece, Italy etc. want vaccine fake saferty cards)
rapid testing does seem a more sensible option for busy places such as pubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres, festivals, etc.

But how rapid is rapid testing? if it's not instant, it may well be unworkable.

And what happens if you'd spend £300 on a festival ticket only to be denied entry at the gate? I know I'd be wanting my money back in full.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Senior Member
rapid testing does seem a more sensible option for busy places such as pubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres, festivals, etc.

But how rapid is rapid testing? if it's not instant, it may well be unworkable.

And what happens if you'd spend £300 on a festival ticket only to be denied entry at the gate? I know I'd be wanting my money back in full.
Well, it is an trade off, but i think it's an better trade off then letting people in on the basis of having had an vaccine from which we simply don't know if it protects the individual from infection and or spreading to others.

Speed, for flights holidays and stuff the pcr test is fine, it shows results in about 2 hours, for festivals pubs etc. that will be pointless unless you can isolate poeple for 2hrs, but there are test able to deliver results in about 20 minutes (article https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/20-minute-covid-19-test-highly-effective-trials-suggest/ ) the drawback with those is that there are said not to be as accurate as lab based test. The article says 79 out of 100 positive identified and a 100% score on negative. with up to 94% on high viral loads, but most people with high viral loads are not without symptons, so together with measuring temperatures and such, you get a better virus management as opposed to vaccine evidence only.

Note that the article i quoted from is by far not the only one i restricted myself to this article only because there are so much article but most of them, generally say lab based test are better, some blaming those differences on the way it is applied, which seems to make sense someone who is trained and does xxx amount of test a day is less likely to get it wrong than someone doing it for the first time. But going to all the articles would make this post like 12 pages but the bottom line is generally the consensus in all those articles is that lab test are better the differences are in the amounts they claim the one is better then the other.

maybe they could create an insurance where poeple can pay extra for so that their cost are covered in case they are not allowed in because of a positive test..
 

Eric Olthwaite

Insert witty self-deprecating description here
To me, the main difficulty with vaccine passports in the near future, is that the young, who have made a heroic altruistic sacrifice to protect the elderly, would face the prospect of being barred from activities that the elderly can enjoy, because the vaccine rollout has not reached them yet. I think that would be pretty shoddy way to treat them.

Once everybody has been offered a vaccine, that is a different situation.
 

classic33

Legendary Member
To me, the main difficulty with vaccine passports in the near future, is that the young, who have made a heroic altruistic sacrifice to protect the elderly, would face the prospect of being barred from activities that the elderly can enjoy, because the vaccine rollout has not reached them yet. I think that would be pretty shoddy way to treat them.

Once everybody has been offered a vaccine, that is a different situation.
I wouldn't say that.
We all had to wait, with some of us observing the same restrictions a bit better than others.
 

classic33

Legendary Member
You don't think that, on the whole, the young have made a particularly altruistic sacrifice?
We've all lived with the same restrictions, since they were brought in. Some have done a better job of actually sticking to them, without moaning how they're stopping us from getting on with living our lives.

Some, younger folk, have even been calling for the older in society to isolate until it's over/safe for them to come out. Purely so they can live their lives, as they want with no restrictions. Hardly heroic.
 
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