Political system

david k

Hi
Location
North West
There is so much debate, mistrust, change, fear and disrespect with our current politicians and party's

I have argued, a little tongue in cheek initially that the system is broken. Friends have strong,y argued not, and it's the opposite party and ignorant people who have caused it. I try to point out that the other party's feel the same but they just don't get it

So a big question, if the system doesn't deliver the best results is thevsystem broken? I'd say yes but not sure to what degree

And secondly, what could we change it to, I'll start

Each area of government has a leader, education, health care etc. Each leader is voted in every four years, doesn't even need to be a party. That way we get more stability and more accurate control, thoughts on this starting point?
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Proportional representation would be a cracking start....
 

lane

Über Member
There is so much debate, mistrust, change, fear and disrespect with our current politicians and party's

I have argued, a little tongue in cheek initially that the system is broken. Friends have strong,y argued not, and it's the opposite party and ignorant people who have caused it. I try to point out that the other party's feel the same but they just don't get it

So a big question, if the system doesn't deliver the best results is thevsystem broken? I'd say yes but not sure to what degree

And secondly, what could we change it to, I'll start

Each area of government has a leader, education, health care etc. Each leader is voted in every four years, doesn't even need to be a party. That way we get more stability and more accurate control, thoughts on this starting point?
Biggest problem with that as I see it they could not set the budget which has the biggest impact on the service. Look at police commissioners waste of time and money.
 

lane

Über Member
If you elected a leader for the NHS they could have a list of things they will do but if they control the budget they have no real control of the service. Accountability without responsibility.
 

Rusty Nails

We remember
Location
Here and there
There is so much debate, mistrust, change, fear and disrespect with our current politicians and party's

I have argued, a little tongue in cheek initially that the system is broken. Friends have strong,y argued not, and it's the opposite party and ignorant people who have caused it. I try to point out that the other party's feel the same but they just don't get it

So a big question, if the system doesn't deliver the best results is the system broken? I'd say yes but not sure to what degree

And secondly, what could we change it to, I'll start

Each area of government has a leader, education, health care etc. Each leader is voted in every four years, doesn't even need to be a party. That way we get more stability and more accurate control, thoughts on this starting point?
Who decides if the system doesn't deliver the best results? Who decides what are the best results?
 

Joey Shabadoo

Formerly known as Diogenes
Democracy has been a dangerous experiment.
 
OP
david k

david k

Hi
Location
North West
Who decides if the system doesn't deliver the best results? Who decides what are the best results?
Good point

With there being so much of the country split, with quite even numbers it's not delivering the best for everyone, or everyone's wishes. Granted it probably impossible to please all the people all the time, but breaking down the system to individual parts may bring more harmony

Would it stop this point scoring against party's and the reverseing of decisions with new party's?
 

mcshroom

Bionic Subsonic
What is that exactly?
A system where Parliament better represents the votes cast in the election. Currently it's quite standard for a Tory/Labour majority government to be returned on around 1/3 of the vote, and minor parties get far fewer seats than their vote share should merit.

You also gave massive disparities. The DUP have 10 MPs with an average of around 35000 votes per seat. By comparison, the Greens got 1200000 votes and only 1 seat, and UKIP in 2015 got no seats with over 4000000 votes.
 
I'd agree the system is broken. I think it worked for a while, to a point, but isn't set up to deal with the vested interests and problems of the scale we're now experiencing.

I'm also not sure what sort of replacement would work for the UK.

Some form or proportional representation would indeed be a good start, but then you need to get used to coalitions, because normally no single party can get a majority. This has the advantage that politicians have to be less adversarial, because they have to work together more -the UK press regularly complains that German politicians are boring because they don't slag each other off as much as Brits- and parties like the greens stand a chance.

The flip side is that more extreme parties also get more representation.

An 'English' parliament probably wouldn't be a bad idea, in the same way that the states in Germany all have a Parliament, but then you are talking a more federal structure with each 'state' having a lot more autonomy. I'm not sure how that one would work in a UK context either because England dwarfs the other four nations.

The same problem would come up if you were to replace the House of Lords with an upper house representing the four nations: England would be able to outvote the other nations, as indeed they can now, and that would mean that as now, the UK gets what England votes for. One solution may be to have 'States' within England, so for example you could have you'd have Wessex, Mercia, Northumberland, et c as states, still with counties but they would also have their own parliaments, and operate with much more autonomy, and have representation in Westminster in what is now the HoL. In fact they would generally look after their education and transport and health systems and pay central government for things like defence and overseas representation.

The problem with this is it would require Westminster and Whitehall agreeing to a loss of power, and a written constitution which I doubt will fly...

Personally I'd also want a president instead of a Monarchy: cheaper (paying one salary instead of supporting a massive extended family), more effective as you'd need someone actually qualified, and you can kick them out if they aren't doing the job very well, and the 'states' would have more power to push back, but I appreciate that the UK still has a while to go before that idea gains much traction.
 

Rusty Nails

We remember
Location
Here and there
A system where Parliament better represents the votes cast in the election. Currently it's quite standard for a Tory/Labour majority government to be returned on around 1/3 of the vote, and minor parties get far fewer seats than their vote share should merit.

You also gave massive disparities. The DUP have 10 MPs with an average of around 35000 votes per seat. By comparison, the Greens got 1200000 votes and only 1 seat, and UKIP in 2015 got no seats with over 4000000 votes.
Some sort of PR that actually reflects the preferences of the electorate is a much more democratic and just system imo than what we have been used to. The problem is that our current two main, conservative parties have it stitched up between them and neither is going to allow any other party to join their cosy club.

We, the electorate, would have to accept and get used to a system where coalitions become much more of the norm.
 
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