Raising NI to fund social care in 2021

A 1 or 2% rise in national insurance to fund social care. Would be fairer if it were income tax IMO - as retired people don't pay NI.

However if we begin to dismantle the very damaging notion that you can have decent social care \ healthcare but low tax that that would be helpful in other areas.
 

vickster

Legendary Member
A 1 or 2% rise in national insurance to fund social care. Would be fairer if it were income tax IMO - as retired people don't pay NI.

However if we begin to dismantle the very damaging notion that you can have decent social care \ healthcare but low tax that that would be helpful in other areas.
Presumably many retired people don't pay (much) income tax either?
 

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke UK
Presumably many retired people don't pay (much) income tax either?
Many (most?) retired people will be below the tax threshold however some will be on good occupational pensions or have investment income etc. which is subject to tax.

There is also a cohort below state pension age who have income which is subject to tax but not NI. At 61 I have a pension from the Civil Service following voluntary redundancy. I pay tax but not NI but I do pay NI on the somewhat smaller sum I'm paid as salary by an advice charity.

As Andrew Marr pointed out to Kwasi Kwarteng an his Sunday politics programme a millionaire with a large buy to let portfolio (let's call him Kwasi Kwarteng) pays no NI on his income from rents.

The issue is that NI is regressive; you pay it on income before you start paying tax and the percentage high earners pay on their top whack is less than a shelf stacker in Tesco pays on their earnings.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Not exactly, you surrender most of your benefit and just get pocket money.

If the means test is altered to give a lifetime maximum payment, £80k is in the frame, then the taxpayer is backfilling my kid's inheritance.
Sort of what works at present for those with their own property. You get a small allowance of your pension etc left to do essential maintenance on the house, which TBH, isn't enough - we just leave the heating on and get the grass cut - it doesn't cover much more. MIL is constantly worried about money. House has a charge against it.

£80k covers about 18 months of Nursing Home costs at the most. Wonder if it will apply to current Care Home residents - doubt it.
 
And if you are on benefits, you still get it all for free. :sad:
Well, not really. Receiving certain benefits (not all) means that one is credited NI contributions - rather more efficient than being paid them and then having to pay them back in ...
Apart from anything else, general taxation makes contributions to all sorts of 'government provisions' and even the poorest of the poor are still paying their 20% (or other %) VAT on much of what they buy or pay for, even a bus ticket or a piece of cake.

More to the point is that NI is not payable at all on some, very generous, incomes. Perhaps look at that before squeezing benefits recipients even further?
 
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MrGrumpy

Huge Member
Location
Fly Fifer
Sturgeon seemed to favour increasing tax , maybe she’s got that right !? One or two of fellow colleagues froth at the mouth but if the money is spent on the right things I’ve no issue ! Increasing NI alone is not really fixing the other loopholes as pointed out. Hence the really rich aren’t effected !
 

vickster

Legendary Member
A fair few retired people are quite comfortably off. In many parts of the country, someone who'd been on a modest salary could easily have a half million house owned outright which they'd payed maybe £5k for and be living quite well on £20k a year say.
I'm sure, I just have no idea how many retired people pay (much) tax hence the question mark.
If they are still living in the house though, they won't be paying tax on it's assumed value other than through council tax. we don't have property taxes per se like in the US as example.
Maybe said people should have to sell their houses to pay for care (rather than saving it for the kids)?
 

Cirrus

Senior Member
I'm happy to pay some extra tax and would prefer that to additional NI as it'd be (in my opinion) fairer. I'd be even happier if everyone paid their fair share, especially some of the big players who make plenty but then pay very little corporation tax. Having your HQ in Ireland or Luxembourg etc, etc and then using clever accounting to erode profits in other countries needs to be addressed.
 

MrGrumpy

Huge Member
Location
Fly Fifer
I'm sure, I just have no idea how many retired people pay (much) tax hence the question mark.
If they are still living in the house though, they won't be paying tax on it's assumed value other than through council tax. we don't have property taxes per se like in the US as example.
Maybe said people should have to sell their houses to pay for care (rather than saving it for the kids)?
or they would have been better just staying in their small terraced house ( outside London ) and spending their money without a care in the world ! Leaving the minimum !
 
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